Journey Planners

[taylor]

These are mentioned on various threads. By and large they probably work, but I tend to go by ‘feel’ For example, last Friday my wife and I made a very rare journey from Uxbridge to the John Lewis headquarters building in Victoria Street (near Westminster Cathedral). As one of us is recovering from a foot injury, I suggested the following routes: (1) Metropolitan Line to Finchley Road, cross platform to Jubilee line thence to Baker Street, cross platform to Bakerloo Line to Oxford Circus, cross platform to Victoria line and thence to Victoria platform 4, then escalators/lifts to Cardinal Place. (2) First train to Rayner’s Lane then Piccadilly Line (from same platform) to Barons Court, cross platform to District Line and thence to Victoria Platform 2 and lift to mezzanine level, escalator to Victoria Line level then as (1) above). Interestingly the TfL planner suggested changing at Baker Street (avoiding the intermediate stops between Finchley Road and there) but its timings were nine minutes longer than my route (2). A third route would have entailed only one change at e.g. from an Aldgate-bound train Euston Square to an outer rail train to Victoria Platform 1 (comfortable but 10 minutes longer than (1)). I did notice that for the suggested journeys (that despite the direcly adjacent Piccadilly and District Line platforms) the Journey Planner does seem very reluctant to suggest Barons Court as an interchange station between the Piccadilly and District Lines suggesting instead Earls Court (EC). Any reasons for that? Any advantage of skipping West Kensington is more than discounted by negotiating the passages and escalator/lifts at EC. Lot of words I know, but I’ve come across several examples where the suggested routes are not as efficient or as fast of those I’ve used for year. Anyone with similar experiences?

[Dstock7080]

Barons Court is not step-free between Lines, there is a small step up into Piccadilly trains.
Hammersmith is now step-free after the work last year to lift the Piccadilly tracks to the platform.

[AndrewS]

Ideally I suppose there would be a "can manage occasional steps" or "slight mobility problems" option as well as absolute step-free. Certainly when I had to take a pushchair or a toddler - and similarly I'd guess for this person with a foot injury - I'd much rather have gone up or down the odd step or non-compliant steep ramp than a long detour to a lift which might then have a queue.  Perhaps in the not-too-distant future AI will allow such options more easily.

[t697]

It's a benefit of being a frequent user for a variety of journeys that one can learn all these interchange characteristics and adapt one's journey appropriately. E.g change at Baker St Met to Jubilee for minimum time on cramped JL, vs. a few steps across the platform at Finchley Road and longer on the JL. Gives one a bit of an in the know advantage as the OP describes.

A few years ago the Circle line trains' CIS was tweaked to show 'via Victoria' on the Outer Rail at Liverpool St and 'via Liverpool St' on the Inner Rail at Victoria, to encourage an easier trip for those happy to sit it out on one air-con train rather than two stuffy Tube trains.

[zbang]

IIRC, there was some iphone software that knew enough to say which parts of which platforms were step-free to the train, not sure it's still around.

The general problem is not only knowing where steps/stairs but knowing the rough amount (one, "a couple", "more than a few", etc). "AI" isn't useful*, simply having the information and changing the normal planning algorithms use it would do the job. (Does this info exist, either at TfL or elsewhere?)

*seldom is for this sort of problem

[Chris M]

There used to be a website that had offered detailed route planning around stations, showing walking distances, number of steps, whether there were handrails, how steep gradients were, and things like that with photographs of each. Unfortunately it wasn't updated and went offline some years ago, iirc ostensibly for an update but it has never returned (at least as far as I've ever discovered). It didn't get preserved in a usable format on the internet archive either.

[taylor]

Interesting input. As a child my favourite seats were just behind the doors in the centre section of 1938 stock. I’m not a crab (that naturally moves sideways) and I could sit facing the direction of travel without getting my feet bashed by the passenger opposite. So yes, for a longer journey, in those days stepping down into a southbound train at South Kenton (with quite frequently a down-fast Stanier pacific’s connecting rods slicing by a couple of feet from my left ear), comfort counted for a lot, as my mother and I went to Regent Street for her to buy a hat at Galleries Lafayette. The availability of transverse seats on the S8s and the A/c generally on the S-stock greatly influence my route choices and where there is a choice between Electrostar 377s over 378s on various south London routes, if time permits, I’ll always opt for the latter. I’ll admit, “I am not a crab and do not like to travel sideways” is highly unlikely to figure in any route planning algorithm, but comfort, is a major factor, and in many cases, even partly disabled passengers can manage up to two or three steps, (e.g. Warren Street entrance…great interchange with Met inner rail from Euston Square.) A standard Tfl Journey Planner route check sends passengers from Googe Street to Finchley Road via Tottenham Court Road and Bond Street (30 minutes) whereas via Warren Street/Euston Square its 23 minutes and far more comfortable. Not looking forward to the 2024 hard-benched Piccadilly Line trains. Thank-goodness for the Bomadier 345s on the E-Line. Not all that soft but I can face where I'm going and have massive windows to look out off. To me it looks like Siemens drafted their fenestration designs from the old C&SLR 'padded cells'! Sorry off topic!

[starlight73]

Mar 18, 2024 22:27:14 GMT Chris M said:

There used to be a website that had offered detailed route planning around stations, showing walking distances, number of steps, whether there were handrails, how steep gradients were, and things like that with photographs of each. Unfortunately it wasn't updated and went offline some years ago

There is a website called Accessable.co.Uk that has access details for some stations - for example, try searching Tottenham Court Road. I suspect it isn’t the website you’re thinking of Chris.

Regarding apps, there is the Station Master App (iOS only I think) which seems good to me, although some info isn’t up to date. Perhaps there are other ones

TfL resources 
 
TfL used to produce an ‘avoiding stairs’ tube map and guide, which was useful for people like me, who can use escalators but need to avoid fixed stairs. There’s quite a few stations which have escalator access to the platform (e.g. Hyde Park Corner) which aren’t represented on the step-free map. It’s now been taken off their website. An outdated version can be downloaded here from the Internet Archive. (It doesn’t show the Northern Line Extension, Overground or Elizabeth line, and it might not work on mobile devices. Cockfosters, Ickenham, Harrow-on-the-Hill, Sudbury Hill, & Osterley are now step-free)

I personally found the colour code in this map a bit confusing. I made an updated version for my own use where accessibility is represented by different station shapes. I don’t think I can post it here but I may be able to show it over PM 

There is an ‘escalators not stairs’ or ‘stairs not escalators’ option on the TfL journey planner, though there’s no option to say you can manage say 3 steps. I agree that would be useful. Agreed about the Warren Street and Barons Court vs Earl’s Court points!

[Chris M]

That isn't the website I was thinking of, although it presents similar information in a different (imo less useful) format and keeps timing out on me.