Increased graffiti on Tube trains

[silenthunter]

I seem to be seeing quite a bit more of this on active trains on the District and Central more recently. Like tags on multiple carriages. Has anyone else noticed this on the lines they use?

[aslefshrugged]

I've noticed plenty on the Central line, obviously because I work there, but I haven't noticed it on other lines when I'm a passenger (mostly District)

I guess they're not cleaning the graffiti off because we're short of stock and it would be too much work to carry out between close and start of traffic

[Chris M]

It is also affecting the Northern, which is another line suffering from stock availability issues but unofficial speculation is that the budget for graffiti removal has been reduced as part of TfL/LU's ongoing funding issues. I suspect the relevant people have decided that passengers would prefer a graffitied train over a cancelled train.

[jimbo]

Of course, it is encouraging to the culprits that their efforts will be seen by a large number of people over a long period of time. If their overnight efforts never saw the light of day, they might be more inclined to give up.

[wonderwaller]

It’s definitely a problem that seems to be increasing and the vandals are getting ever more brazen in their incursions onto the railway with total disregard for their safety
I suspect widespread stock issues are why units are being kept in service longer than would normally have been the case

[Colin]

Jun 14, 2024 9:30:24 GMT Chris M said:

It is also affecting the Northern, which is another line suffering from stock availability issues but unofficial speculation is that the budget for graffiti removal has been reduced as part of TfL/LU's ongoing funding issues. I suspect the relevant people have decided that passengers would prefer a graffitied train over a cancelled train.

"ongoing funding issues"..........also known as "managed decline".....

[aslefshrugged]

Jun 14, 2024 10:21:26 GMT jimbo said:

Of course, it is encouraging to the culprits that their efforts will be seen by a large number of people over a long period of time. If their overnight efforts never saw the light of day, they might be more inclined to give up.

No actual evidence to support that theory as when they were cleaning off graffiti overnight it didn't seem to deter them

I suppose if the graffiti isn't cleaned eventually they'll run out of empty space...

[aslefshrugged]

Jun 14, 2024 22:55:17 GMT Colin said:

Jun 14, 2024 9:30:24 GMT Chris M said:

It is also affecting the Northern, which is another line suffering from stock availability issues but unofficial speculation is that the budget for graffiti removal has been reduced as part of TfL/LU's ongoing funding issues. I suspect the relevant people have decided that passengers would prefer a graffitied train over a cancelled train.

"ongoing funding issues"..........also known as "managed decline".....

And yet TfL announced that it recorded a £162m operating surplus last financial year

[alpinejohn]

Sadly this sort of damage is very much a worlwide problem and appears to be largely caused by Juveniles who have nothing better to do(rather than Banksys). Certainly in countries where most trains are already plastered in damage it does not appear to discourage further tagging.

Even when caught red handed it appears parents are often totally oblivious to their offsprings involvement or indeed oblivious of their whereabouts. As juveniles the Courts have minimal choice when it comes to applying really efective sanctions, hence time ad again tags of repeat offenders can often appear widely on trains buses stations and other public transport property.

Only when the courts are allowed to apply more directly relevant sentences, is there any likelihood the individuals invoilved will cease.

Simply banning relevant individuals from being in possession of aerosol paints or marker pens does not appear to solve the problem.

What is needed is something which directly effects their free time. So instead of dissapearing off to go tagging trains etc the relevant parents should be required to collect them directly from school every day for a week or two and instead deliver their juvenile directly to a TFL depot where the juvenile will be kitted out and suitably supervised whilst they remove graffiti from at least a dozen or more trains.

This sort of sanction will ensure the message sinks in with both parents and youths and possibly help reduce the cost involved clearing this plague.

[wonderwaller]

Jun 15, 2024 8:48:16 GMT alpinejohn said:

Sadly this sort of damage is very much a worlwide problem and appears to be largely caused by Juveniles who have nothing better to do(rather than Banksys). Certainly in countries where most trains are already plastered in damage it does not appear to discourage further tagging.

Even when caught red handed it appears parents are often totally oblivious to their offsprings involvement or indeed oblivious of their whereabouts. As juveniles the Courts have minimal choice when it comes to applying really efective sanctions, hence time ad again tags of repeat offenders can often appear widely on trains buses stations and other public transport property.

Only when the courts are allowed to apply more directly relevant sentences, is there any likelihood the individuals invoilved will cease.

Simply banning relevant individuals from being in possession of aerosol paints or marker pens does not appear to solve the problem.

What is needed is something which directly effects their free time. So instead of dissapearing off to go tagging trains etc the relevant parents should be required to collect them directly from school every day for a week or two and instead deliver their juvenile directly to a TFL depot where the juvenile will be kitted out and suitably supervised whilst they remove graffiti from at least a dozen or more trains.

This sort of sanction will ensure the message sinks in with both parents and youths and possibly help reduce the cost involved clearing this plague.

Probably a nice idea in theory it’s getting virtually impossible to get staff who are supposedly trained to get anywhere near the track these days so no chance of vandals
Also not sure of the age range but suspect many aren’t juveniles

[Chris M]

The solution to problems caused by (young) people not having anything else to do is to give them other things to do. This means doing things like funding youth centres, enabling job and volunteering opportunities, providing spaces where they can legally congregate (including in large groups) without being forced to move on, and both reliable and affordable means of getting to these. Doing this costs money, but less than cost (in economic and social terms) than the results of the crime and anti-social behaviour.

[d7666]

Jun 15, 2024 8:48:16 GMT alpinejohn said:

So instead of dissapearing off to go tagging trains etc the relevant parents should be required to collect them directly from school every day for a week or two and instead deliver their juvenile directly to a TFL depot where the juvenile will be kitted out and suitably supervised whilst they remove graffiti from at least a dozen or more trains.
.

Not sure that is thought through.

In doing that, you are showing the offenders ways into depots they won't have found yet. They'd have to be depot familiarised, so yes, let's walk them all round the depot and in doing that show them all the entrances and exits etc. All that is info they can then use to later gain illicit access more confidently, since they now know where the depot offices and security are and where to avoid them.

I suggest showing offenders who have illegally accessed places where trains are berthed are just about the last individuals you want to let into these places officially.

[billbedford]

Jun 15, 2024 8:48:16 GMT alpinejohn said:

Only when the courts are allowed to apply more directly relevant sentences, is there any likelihood the individuals invoilved will cease.

You mean something like having to paint the Forth Bridge?

[rincew1nd]

The moderator team have removed some posts from this thread as the discussion was taking on a political slant. We don't do politics here and we also don't give vandals the oxygen of publicity. Thread locked.