Blackwall and Silvertown Tunnel charges consultation

[Chris M]

TfL are currently consulting about the proposed charges to use the Blackwall and Silvertown tunnels after the latter opens (charges will be identical at both tunnels).

haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/tc-yourview?tool&tool_id=tc-yourview-survey

[spsmiler]

something that was free will now be chargeable - and if travelling at night people will switch to the Dartford Crossing which is free at night. Some people will do this even if it means driving a distance 'out of their way'. As for air pollution - the mere need to pay a toll will blow that topic out of the water - more driving will cause more air pollution (unless the vehicle is electric)

The proposed peak hour charges are obviously designed to deter usage. For some ordinary working people this will be unaffordable. I would not be surprised if there is an increase in people adopting illegal actions designed to defeat the tolling system.

Although I used the Blackwall Tunnel a lot in the 1980s and 1990s (as part of my employment) I am delighted that nowadays I never need to use this river crossing. Even in those days the traffic (at busy times) was often 'just horrible'.

[DWS]

The Blackwall and Silvertown tunnels will be free between 22:00 and 06:00 so why would people switch to the Dartford Crossing !

[brigham]

"Without these charges, traffic would increase in both tunnels..."

It will certainly increase in the new one!

[Chris M]

Jul 12, 2024 22:43:55 GMT spsmiler said:

The proposed peak hour charges are obviously designed to deter usage. For some ordinary working people this will be unaffordable.

There are discounts proposed for residents (50%, for at least 3 years) and small business, sole traders and charities (£1, for at least 12 months) living/based in Newham, Tower Hamlets and Greenwich boroughs.

[towerman]

As soon as Silvertown and Blackwell tunnels are tolled the Rotherhithe tunnel is closing for nine months,wouldn’t be surprised when it reopens it’ll be tolled as well.

[Chris M]

TfL stated in February this year that they have no plans to toll the Rotherhithe Tunnel. It's not an option for most of the traffic at Blackwall as it has 2-metre height and width restrictions and 2-tonne gross permitted weight limit. It is also poorly connected on the south side of the river and runs south-west to north-east - most traffic at Blackwall is north or north-east to south or south-east, if you're going to/from the west the central or west-London bridges are often more convenient.

[johnlinford]

Jul 13, 2024 10:47:43 GMT Chris M said:

There are discounts proposed for residents (50%, for at least 3 years) and small business, sole traders and charities (£1, for at least 12 months) living/based in Newham, Tower Hamlets and Greenwich boroughs.

The discounts are only for "low income" residents.

Currently my closest Ikea, B&Q and various shopping outlets at the O2 are through the tunnel.  I suspect it will work out cheaper to drive much further, with all the congestion and pollution that involves, than to pay the toll when it is introduced.

[Chris L]

Jul 13, 2024 12:52:09 GMT johnlinford said:

Jul 13, 2024 10:47:43 GMT Chris M said:

There are discounts proposed for residents (50%, for at least 3 years) and small business, sole traders and charities (£1, for at least 12 months) living/based in Newham, Tower Hamlets and Greenwich boroughs.

The discounts are only for "low income" residents.

Currently my closest Ikea, B&Q and various shopping outlets at the O2 are through the tunnel.  I suspect it will work out cheaper to drive much further, with all the congestion and pollution that involves, than to pay the toll when it is introduced.

Plans are in to demolish the B&Q store and replace it with housing.

I would suggest that none of the outlets at the O2 require a car to visit them.

[spsmiler]

Jul 13, 2024 4:05:44 GMT DWS said:

The Blackwall and Silvertown tunnels will be free between 22:00 and 06:00 so why would people switch to the Dartford Crossing !

I did not know that - the charging info I saw on Twitter did not mention the free nights - so the new East London river tunnel tolling will have the same free hours as the Dartford crossing.

This reduces the barrier effect for night users - but not day users.

I use the phrase 'barrier effect' because for many people the mere imposition of a toll is going to be somewhat like the installation of a new barrier. The other side of the river will be 'so near - yet so far'.

It will reverse the connectedness between the two sides of the river - sort like the opposite of what the East London line in its present form has done for the people of New Cross and Dalston. (two communities brought much closer together by an easy 'one seat' train ride).

I wonder whether the Woolwich ferry will see an increase in daytime use?

[Chris M]

I would be surprised if the Woolwich Ferry doesn't see some increase in usage levels - especially if the reliability improves, however how significant will depend on people's personal calculations regarding the value of their time vs the cost of the tunnel vs additional time to use the ferry vs relative driving distance.

The purpose of the tolls is to try and mitigate the induced demand the new tunnel will inevitably bring, with all the knock-on impacts of congestion and air pollution on the approaches (which is why so many people who agree with the need for more road crossings in east London were opposed to building it at this location). So yes it will act as a barrier, but only for travel by private vehicle. Those using buses will see additional connectivity.

[Chris L]

Jul 15, 2024 0:13:21 GMT Chris M said:

I would be surprised if the Woolwich Ferry doesn't see some increase in usage levels - especially if the reliability improves, however how significant will depend on people's personal calculations regarding the value of their time vs the cost of the tunnel vs additional time to use the ferry vs relative driving distance.

The Woolwich Ferry is more reliable now that they have recruited enough people to run the 2 boat service. 

The Mayor wanted to put a toll on the ferry but it would require an act of parliament.

[towerman]

Jul 13, 2024 12:50:07 GMT Chris M said:

TfL stated in February this year that they have no plans to toll the Rotherhithe Tunnel. It's not an option for most of the traffic at Blackwall as it has 2-metre height and width restrictions and 2-tonne gross permitted weight limit. It is also poorly connected on the south side of the river and runs south-west to north-east - most traffic at Blackwall is north or north-east to south or south-east, if you're going to/from the west the central or west-London bridges are often more convenient.

They said they had no plans to expand ULEZ,that turned out well.

[class411]

Jul 15, 2024 11:22:36 GMT towerman said:

Jul 13, 2024 12:50:07 GMT Chris M said:

TfL stated in February this year that they have no plans to toll the Rotherhithe Tunnel. It's not an option for most of the traffic at Blackwall as it has 2-metre height and width restrictions and 2-tonne gross permitted weight limit. It is also poorly connected on the south side of the river and runs south-west to north-east - most traffic at Blackwall is north or north-east to south or south-east, if you're going to/from the west the central or west-London bridges are often more convenient.

They said they had no plans to expand ULEZ,that turned out well.

Well, it turned out well for all the people in the expanded ULEZ who have a penchant for O₂.