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Post by abe on Jul 20, 2024 9:33:32 GMT
When the line was extended north from Great Central (now Marylebone) to Edgware Road in 1907, a new crossover would have been provided. Up until this time, trains reversed at the Great Central crossover, just south of the station. This was a trailing crossover though, and until the opening of Edgware Road only the NB platform was used. The signal box at Great Central closed in 1913 when the extension to Paddington opened so the crossover must have been removed by then. Edgware Road’s box closed at the same time. Does anyone know anything more about the Edgware Road crossover? I would assume that it was a trailing crossover, and located south of the station, but can anyone confirm this, and any of the dates for this crossover and that at Great Central? Thanks!
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Post by jimbo on Jul 20, 2024 10:08:02 GMT
Mike Horne probably listed all that is known about both locations: link
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Post by starlight73 on Jul 20, 2024 19:29:16 GMT
The crossover was south of Edgware Road station by the looks of this cab ride video (starts at 6:30)
Page 39 of Jimbo's fascinating doc says that Edgware Road (Bakerloo) signal cabin had 11 levers (2p,5s,4c) – does that mean 2 point levers, 5 shunt signals, 4 colour light signals? Guessing that means the signaller could not allow a northbound train to depart, or a southbound one to arrive if the crossover was active. I don't know much about this, but I'm wondering if it was a trailing crossover? If facing crossover: doesn't make sense to me - there wouldn't be a reason to hold a northbound train in the platform. The following train would be routed into the southbound platform. If trailing crossover: prevents signaller clearing the northbound starter while the crossover is active – makes sense as that train would be intended to be sent south using the crossover. May also prevent following southbound train proceeding into the crossover
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,165
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Post by Tom on Jul 20, 2024 21:00:50 GMT
Page 39 of Jimbo's fascinating doc says that Edgware Road (Bakerloo) signal cabin had 11 levers (2p,5s,4c) – does that mean 2 point levers, 5 shunt signals, 4 colour light signals? I wish I'd asked Mike this when he was still alive! I think he means 2 point levers, 5 signal levers and 4 control levers, but why four for control is beyond me.
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Post by jimbo on Jul 21, 2024 5:56:34 GMT
I presume that when the Bakerloo service first started between current Lambeth North and Baker Street, trains continued empty to reverse at current Marylebone station until that opened to the public a year later.. Edgware Road station opened only three months on, so it seems odd that the cost of constructing facilities was undertaken at both. But perhaps this matched the same at the other end of the line at now Lambeth North and also Elephant, the former with a single crossover whilst the final terminus has a scissors crossover. The line beyond to Paddington did not open for another six years, and beyond that a year later.
The original post seems certain that current Marylebone had a trailing crossover, as did Lambeth North. Mike Horne's table shows Marylebone had 1 point lever, 5 signal levers and 1 control lever. So the trailing crossover was worked by one point lever, the signals being home and starter on each road, and a wrong road starting signal. Perhaps the control lever permitted automatic working when the box was locked out of use? Else, a locking lever on the crossover.
So how do we explain that Edgware Road had 2 point levers, 5 signal levers and 4 control levers? Well, 2 point levers suggest a scissors crossover to match provision at the south end of the line. The same number of signal levers suggests that the northbound home signal cleared according to the crossover setting. The number of control levers is a mystery to me.
The provision of signals at the Paddington end of the station, which would have been overrun tunnels at that time, appears to be rather odd. They seem prepared for onward extension of the line, which didn't happen for six years. If the southbound home signal allowed a stabled train back from the overrun tunnel, there is no such provision for the northbound overrun tunnel, although the northbound starter could have permitted a train to enter it!
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Post by Harsig on Jul 21, 2024 9:20:56 GMT
Page 39 of Jimbo's fascinating doc says that Edgware Road (Bakerloo) signal cabin had 11 levers (2p,5s,4c) – does that mean 2 point levers, 5 shunt signals, 4 colour light signals? I wish I'd asked Mike this when he was still alive! I think he means 2 point levers, 5 signal levers and 4 control levers, but why four for control is beyond me. Having looked into this I would suggest that 'c' indicates 'spaCe' rather than 'Control'. For those unfamiliar with the terminology 'spaCe' would indicate a lever position where a point or signal lever could have been installed but was not, leaving a visual gap in the bank of levers in the frame. Mike Horne appears to indicate spaces separately from spare levers, the latter apparently being included in the count of signal or point levers as appropriate. I attach the signal diagrams for both Edgware Road and Great Central signal cabins, along with their associated locking tables. The Great Central diagrams illustrate perfectly the different treatment of spare levers and lever spaces, having one of each. Edgware RoadGreat Central
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,467
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Post by DWS on Jul 21, 2024 9:39:15 GMT
Thanks Harsig for the diagrams can I ask the source of them, I did use to volunteer at the LT museum depot sorting out Signal plans but don’t remember finding ones for GC and ER cabins.
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Post by abe on Jul 21, 2024 10:26:42 GMT
Thanks Harsig - that's very useful. Thanks to everyone else as well for your comments. That's filled in a gap in my knowledge!
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