AWS Ramps

[Deleted]

Are there any AWS ramps etc on the Met line north of Harrow or is that the reason for the tripcocks on the 165s?

[Tom]

There's no AWS on the majority of it, I'm not sure about the first LT signals at the boundaries though.

[Deleted]

I think JB1 has an AWS ramp of some sort, but the one I saw might have been a fixed ramp for warning drivers of the impending speed change.

[Deleted]

There is no AWS at all on the portion of the Met Line used by Chiltern. The AWS magnet refered by TheOneKEA is located between RJB1 and JB1 on the approach to Harrow and its only used to warn drivers of a speed change from 60 to 40.

[Deleted]

BAET has said that AWS is not likely to make an appearance on the main lines north of Harrow South Junction if that portion of the Met was to be resignalled anytime soon. If that is the case then who is responsible for maintaining an AWS ramp between a pair of LU signals on (ostensibly) NR track?

stanmore K's Met buddies haven't installed a Maintenance Boundary sign like the one at Mantles Wood either, so I don't even know where the boundary is!

[Deleted]

It is true that AWS is not expected to be installed at all on the Met lines in the future resignalling. What I heard is that ATP, of the same style installed on the Great Western Lines from Paddington, may be installed.

The AWS magnet installed between RJB1 and JB1 is a permanent one as it only provides a warning for the speed restriction, therefore no maintenance at all it's necessary, although i would guess that still will be NR responsability. (Although the magnet is, I think, inside LUL territory).

There is indeed no boundary sign between NR and LUL infraestructure south of Harrow. However a few months ago I was travelling with a NR gang that was taking notes about the state of the vegetation and they pointed out to me that the boundary is the bridge that crosses the West Coast Main Line (near, I think, N. Park station). On that bridge is were the NR Cab Secure Radio channel change boards are located.

[Deleted]

chillout said:

It is true that AWS is not expected to be installed at all on the Met lines in the future resignalling. What I heard is that ATP, of the same style installed on the Great Western Lines from Paddington, may be installed.

Interesting!

The Chiltern main line between Marylebone and Aynho Junction, including Neasden to Harrow, Mantles Wood to Aylesbury and Risborough to Aylesbury, already have an induction-loop-based ATP system in place and under active development and expansion. Despite the fact that it is technically obsolete (stephenk should appear soon, discussing the new radio-based ATP systems), wouldn't it make more sense to either implement this ATP on the Met for compatibility with Chiltern's fleet?

Of course, there is the option of NR and Metronet going halvsies on a new ATP system, replacing the existing ATP and additionally being installed on the Met...

chillout said:

The AWS magnet installed between RJB1 and JB1 is a permanent one as it only provides a warning for the speed restriction, therefore no maintenance at all it's necessary, although i would guess that still will be NR responsability. (Although the magnet is, I think, inside LUL territory).

Indeed - I was just curious as to whose patch it rested upon.

chillout said:

There is indeed no boundary sign between NR and LUL infraestructure south of Harrow. However a few months ago I was travelling with a NR gang that was taking notes about the state of the vegetation and they pointed out to me that the boundary is the bridge that crosses the West Coast Main Line (near, I think, N. Park station). On that bridge is were the NR Cab Secure Radio channel change boards are located.

I have seen the CSR channel boards in the vicnity of the bridge, and of course RJB1/3 is only a few metres from one end of it. Why is there no boundary sign though?

[Deleted]

theonekea said:

wouldn't it make more sense to either implement this ATP on the Met for compatibility with Chiltern's fleet?

You are correct on all of that. Metronet has to replace the signalling sometime, and as part as that will install ATP (and who knows if ATO). Chiltern (NR) will be required to adopt the same system as tripcocks are expected to dissapear. The current system of loops used by Chiltern is not compatible due to the fourth rail.
At present Chiltern is keen on accelerating the upgrade of the line to enable to restore full 70mph running, as they are far from happy with the current situation.

theonekea said:

I have seen the CSR channel boards in the vicnity of the bridge, and of course RJB1/3 is only a few metres from one end of it. Why is there no boundary sign though?

To tell you the truth I don't know the reason why the boundary is not signed but I will endevour to find it out and I will let you know.

[Deleted]

chillout said:

theonekea said:

wouldn't it make more sense to either implement this ATP on the Met for compatibility with Chiltern's fleet?

You are correct on all of that. Metronet has to replace the signalling sometime, and as part as that will install ATP (and who knows if ATO). Chiltern (NR) will be required to adopt the same system as tripcocks are expected to dissapear. The current system of loops used by Chiltern is not compatible due to the fourth rail.

Ah! I did not think of that - and I suppose that modifying about three hundred ATP receivers to look for the loop in other parts of the four-foot would be a bit unfeasible.

chillout said:

At present Chiltern is keen on accelerating the upgrade of the line to enable to restore full 70mph running, as they are far from happy with the current situation.

Good! Maybe they'll pay for Dorman MAS between Harrow North and Watford South ;D

chillout said:

theonekea said:

I have seen the CSR channel boards in the vicnity of the bridge, and of course RJB1/3 is only a few metres from one end of it. Why is there no boundary sign though?

To tell you the truth I don't know the reason why the boundary is not signed but I will endevour to find it out and I will let you know.

Thanks.

[wellgroomed]

The official boundary change point is just north of MR.42 - Kenton Road (North).

Technically, signals JB.1 and JB.40 exist on NR territory.