Upgrades on the Chesham branch

[Deleted]

I had reason to get the Chesham shuttle last weekend. Talk about clacketty-clack! Does anyone know if there are any plans to upgrade the track? I would have thought it difficult to justify the cash.

The Metronet ( ) site quotes line length of 41.5 miles with 36 miles to be replaced by 2011. Have I guessed correctly at one of the bits to be missed? Thanks.

[Tubeboy]

ooohhh, cynicism, or is it realism!!!. Chesham station is due to be refurbished by 2009, which is incidentally its 120th birthday! As for the track, its quite nice to hear the clickety clack of wheel on rail. ;D

[marty]

I A G R E E !

[Tomcakes]

Does most of the tube use CWR? Perhaps the Chesham branch doesn't...

[mowat]

If you can hear clickety clack then it is the old jointed rail.

[Tubeboy]

Yes thats right. The jointed rail still very much makes up most of the p way on the underground. sections of continuous welded rail are the Northern around London Bridge, and the JLE. ;D

[Deleted]

no long welded sections there just 30ft rail

[Tubeboy]

Apologies for my ignorance, I was wondering pat, the new track on the central flank of the district, is this going to be cwr?. ;D

[Harsig]

tubeboy said:

Yes thats right. The jointed rail still very much makes up most of the p way on the underground. sections of continuous welded rail are the Northern around London Bridge, and the JLE. ;D

Long Welded Rails have been in use on the Underground for nearly seventy years ( the first rail welding plant was installed at Lillie Bridge in 1937) and makes up the vast majority of track on the Underground.
'Reconstructing London's Underground' by HG Follenfant says the following:

Flash Butt Welded rail was first installed in the United Kingdom on London Transport railways, where it is standard for every location, except on curves of 15 chains radius or less, through points and crossings, at places where there is alternate covered and open conditions, and in cuttings where clearances are such that the de-stressing drill cannot be carried out with day-time observation. The rails are welded into nominal 300 ft lengths, tailor made to suit insulated joint positions and jointed into ½ mile lengths by machine fitted fishplates and fitted fishbolts so that there is a running surface on the rail free of gaps except at the insulated joints between signalling track circuits, where the gaps are filled with insulation material. The ½ mile lengths are separated by stress adjustment switches.

Interestingly it also says

Up to 1960 there was a greater mileage of long welded rails on London Transport than in the whole of the remainder of the United Kingdom, and all flash butt welded rails installed experimentally on British Railways prior to 1947 were welded by London Transport at Lillie Bridge.

What this all means is that is that when you go and look at a stretch of track on the Underground, while it may at first glance look like jointed track you won't have to go far to find a place where the rails have been welded together.

[Deleted]

mowat said:

If you can hear clickety clack then it is the old jointed rail.

The Chesham Single is indeed jointed track. To replace parts or all of the line, you would need to close the line, because it is single, hence the reason most of the time, it is "repeaired" to keep going, admitedly there are a lot of 50p peice corners and dropped joints, but the important thing is, it is still in a safe condition for the operation of a train service.

[mandgc]

Long Welded Rails.

Is it practicable to lay LWRs in single Line tunnels or have any that are there been welded on the site after laying ?

[mandgc]

Relaying the Chesham Line.

It should be possible to arrange some Weekend Possessions with a Bus Service -perhaps to Amersham only.

[Deleted]

mandgc said:

It should be possible to arrange some Weekend Possessions with a Bus Service -perhaps to Amersham only.

Yes thats what hey would have to do, but close it for a month of two and get the whole lot done at once

[Tubeboy]

I can just see the headline on the substandard " chesham commuters stranded" or " highest farepayers get nothing in return," or similar tripe we have all become too familiar with.

[Deleted]

centraluser said:

The Metronet ( ) site quotes line length of 41.5 miles with 36 miles to be replaced by 2011. Have I guessed correctly at one of the bits to be missed? Thanks.

Well, how long is the Chesham Branch???

Solution: Take the answer off of 41.5 miles....

[whoosh]

41.5 - 36 = 5.5miles

According to a map I downloaded from somewhere, which gives the distances between each station, - the distance from Chalfont & Latimer to Chesham is 3.95 miles. (Incidentally ;D the longest distance between two adjacent stations on the London Underground system)

Which leaves us with 1.55 miles left over.

How long is the northern curve between Rickmansworth and Croxley? Only a handful of trains use that connection each day, so I can't see that being upgraded. Perhaps that accounts for the rest, or some of it?

[Deleted]

whoosh said:

41.5 - 36 = 5.5miles

According to a map I downloaded from somewhere, which gives the distances between each station, - the distance from Chalfont & Latimer to Chesham is 3.95 miles. (Incidentally ;D the longest distance between two adjacent stations on the London Underground system)

Which leaves us with 1.55 miles left over.

How long is the northern curve between Rickmansworth and Croxley? Only a handful of trains use that connection each day, so I can't see that being upgraded. Perhaps that accounts for the rest, or some of it?

When I originally posed the question, I suspected that Rickmansworth to Croxley might be the missing part of the equation. I'm probably looking at the same map as you which suggests Moor Park to Ricky at 2.09 miles and Moor Park to Croxley at 1.83 miles. QED and by jove, I think we may have found the missing bit of track???

To go back to the original question, is it a No?

btw I think this is the first time I've started a new topic. Fascinating how things meander around.

[mandgc]

Watford North Curve.

The distance from the Facing Point in the Southbound Line from Rickmansworth to the Spring Points where the curve joins the Northbound Line towards Watford was shown as 1763 feet.