Views on the A60/62 stock

[a60]

Their days are now running short, the last one will be witdrawn in 2013. London Underground have already made a desicion on which train will run the last service. 5000-5001 Built 1960 and, 5234-5235 built in 1963.

They were good trains, however they are now very tatty and would need "make do and mend" done on them.

[North End]

a60 said:

Their days are now running short, the last one will be witdrawn in 2013. London Underground have already made a desicion on which train will run the last service. 5000-5001 Built 1960 and, 5234-5235 built in 1963.

They were good trains, however they are now very tatty and would need "make do and mend" done on them.

Without wishing to burst any bubbles, unit 5234 is a hybrid unit formed from A60 cars.

5234 - originally 5034 then 5008
6234 - originally 6008
6235 - originally 6009
5235 - originally 5009

BRB Class 465.

[metman]

Yup, built in 1960!

[a60]

When I saw 5002-5003 at Wembley, it said built in 1961.
When I saw 5000-5001 at Harrow it said built in 1960.
So 5000-5001 must be the only unit of that type built in 1960.

[metman]

Yes, I've seen that too. The order was placed in 1959 I think and 5000-5001 must have been the prototype of sorts!

Our friend 5234-5 was actually the first train to be properly refurbished in 1992, coming out of retirement! Can I ask where you found out that 5000-1 and 5234-5 would be the last train and that they would be running in 2013 (not that I'm complaining about that!).

I love the A stock-I've grown up with them. They are warm, comfy and big! They are perfect for the route they are on. They are a little old, but as I was always taught, one must respect ones elders! On a more historical note they are probably all thats left of the old Metropolitan railway. I know this sounds strange but since 1933 the Met has been gradually absorbed into the LU collective- but has always been a little different. Big trains, fast services, special seat layouts, the coat of arms on the trains(!)...When the new trains arrive, the Metropolitan Line will simply be just another tube line!

It's a shame really that the new trains couldn't be more like the A stock with (mostly) 2+2 seating. I saw this article the other day-bought a tear to my eye!
blogs.guardian.co.uk/art/2007/10/classics_of_everyday_design_no_33.html

[a60]

Before 1990, between Willesden and Moor Park they used to go up to 70mph.

For photos I took at Watford visit my site: gameswisard.piczo.com

I think the S Stock isnot really your Chesham Shuttle.
I think that a couple of 4-car A Stock trains should be saved for that line.

I heard it from Metronet and tfl. The info is no longer availible.

a60

[metman]

They won't keep any A stock for the Chesham service unfortunately although it would be great if they did-it would be like the heritage routes in London with Routemasters still being used!

Yeah, the A stock used to go really quick especially downhill from Amersham-mind you the Met-Vik locos and T stock trains could get to 65mph too!

[a60]

Photos are temporarily unavailible, Sorry.
They will be at some point in time.

[ruislip]

metman said:

When the new trains arrive, the Metropolitan Line will simply be just another tube line!

I always thought that the Uxbridge branch was more like a tube line; and the lines to Watford/Chesham/Amersham was the "main line" portion of the Met for the following reasons:
1) The Uxbridge line is shared with the Piccadilly Line; with the other part of the Met shared with Network Rail.
2) After the Met became part of London Transport, ex-Metropolitan Railway stock (to include steam) worked the services to Watford/Amersham/Chesham; while new P stock (eventually supplemented by ex District Line F stock) worked the Uxbridge services.
3) Even though the branch to Watford opened 21 years after the Uxbridge, service to Watford was worked jointly with the LNER. There was no joint service to Uxbridge with any mainline company.
4) The majority of Uxbridge services nowadays run to the City along tracks shared by the Hammersmith and Circle lines. The other Met main branches have a preponderance of services to the 'main-line' like terminus of Baker Street.

[Deleted]

ruislip said:

metman said:

When the new trains arrive, the Metropolitan Line will simply be just another tube line!

I always thought that the Uxbridge branch was more like a tube line; and the lines to Watford/Chesham/Amersham was the "main line" portion of the Met for the following reasons:
1) The Uxbridge line is shared with the Piccadilly Line; with the other part of the Met shared with Network Rail.
2) After the Met became part of London Transport, ex-Metropolitan Railway stock (to include steam) worked the services to Watford/Amersham/Chesham; while new P stock (eventually supplemented by ex District Line F stock) worked the Uxbridge services.
3) Even though the branch to Watford opened 21 years after the Uxbridge, service to Watford was worked jointly with the LNER. There was no joint service to Uxbridge with any mainline company.
4) The majority of Uxbridge services nowadays run to the City along tracks shared by the Hammersmith and Circle lines. The other Met main branches have a preponderance of services to the 'main-line' like terminus of Baker Street.

I've always felt that too Ruislip. When I was a kid, me and my mate used to go everywhere on the underground just to see what was there!

We went to every station but the crowning glory was always Amersham, Chesham or Watford. Apart from the fact it cost a bloody fortune to get there (for an 8 year old), these stations always had a "yesteryear" feel to them and it was always more of an adventure. I can distinctly remember being told to clear off by a tobacconist in Chesham as I attempted to buy 20 Rothmans!

[metman]

The Uxbridge service is certainly more populated! Before the P stock arrived the Uxbridge was worked by a mix of Saloon (V) Stock and Ashbury (N/M) stocks. Of course VT stock used T stock motors pulling saloon stock trailers! Strangely when the F and O/P stocks were scrapped/displaced by A62 stock on the Uxbridge service the seating provision actually increased!

I love the stations on the joint line-except Moor Park and Northwood. My favourate station is probably Chorleywood-and I used to go everywhere as a kid too!

[Deleted]

The A stock are great trains and they were built to last it's beacause metrodebt couldn't care less about their old stock that they are getting a little rusty. they will be missed like the bigbangs and creeking and the bouncyness

[metman]

Hell yeah! They are the most amazing underground trains ever built! I will miss them hugely-especially considering what their replacements look like!

[edwin]

They are nice trains but they're outdated, we can't have them forever.

As a side note, I think the Amersham branch should be given to Chiltern, the Met can use the slow lines from Harrow-on-the-Hill to Watford (which should go to Watford Junction and meet up with the Bakerloo line, but thats another story altogether)

[metman]

That was the plan for cross rail! I don't think many Amersham branch users would want just the Chiltern services-especially the cost!

They are old, but the design is excellent and something similar is needed.

[edwin]

metman said:

That was the plan for cross rail! I don't think many Amersham branch users would want just the Chiltern services-especially the cost!

It's silly though, sharing track with mainline trains, especially when it's going to be ATO not long from now.

The service is not even that good, and it's not even in London, I don't see why they are so special to deserve a metro service when they are way out in the outskirts when some in south London barely have that.

[metman]

In about 5 years yeah, it shouldn't effect the Chiltern trains. Some of the high ups live in that part of the world too! Chiltern is the best TOC however, so they must be doing something right!

Should Epping or Upminster loose its service-they're not in London?

South London is a nightmare! The first railways lines were built there and it tends to be a little more overcrowded than the north. Also the ground is poor for digging tunnels in.

I agree however that South London needs a proper metro service tho-it is very poor, they must rationalise the existing routes to improve things.

[abe]

edwin said:

It's silly though, sharing track with mainline trains, especially when it's going to be ATO not long from now.

The service is not even that good, and it's not even in London, I don't see why they are so special to deserve a metro service when they are way out in the outskirts when some in south London barely have that.

I don't think it's silly at all. The service provided by the Met is quite reasonable, and with the Chiltern services it's pretty good. If you see the train loadings in the peak there is certainly the need for both - Chiltern don't run direct to the City either.

And, as a resident of Amersham, I object to the claim that we feel we are 'special'. The Met runs to Amersham because it was built there. The infrastructure exists - are you saying that the services should be withdrawn because of some arbitary administrative boundary, rather than on the basis of demand?

South London is a completely different situation, so let's not mix the arguments. The main-line companies south of the Thames acted to prevent extensions of the Underground, which were difficult anyway because the London clay is much thinner, and there is a lot of waterlogged gravel and sand. The Northern line was only extended to Morden because of Parliamentary pressure and an agreement to drop any further extension to the south.

[metman]

Quite abe, if you live up here-you understand!

[edwin]

Okay, maybe my point about it not being in London was a bit unreasonable, but I still stick to what I said, simpler routes are more reliable, just look at the Northern and District lines! And track-sharing should also be phased about, especially when ATO is coming to the met. Are passengers really bothered about direct routes into the city? Especially when they can easily swap platforms at Harrow-on-the-Hill.

[metman]

To be fair, I don't know what all the fuss is about! One train uses ATO (in the week only probably) and the other is driven! Big Deal! Overground and the District share tracks at Gunnersbury-Richmond and Bakerloo and Overground share tracks at Queens Pk-Harrow & Wealdstone (for now)!

I think passengers are bothered. Why should they have to change? Harrow is not an 'easy' interchange especially as not all Marylebone trains stop there.

[edwin]

If it were to happen, there should be an obligation to provide good service including trains stopping at Harrow-on-the-Hill.

And regarding signalling, it just complicates it more, LU needs less complication!

[metman]

Chiltern decided they wanted fewer trains to stop at Met stations. For example-many do not stop at Rickmansworth during the rush hours and some do not stop at Chorleywood either. There is the odd train the that runs fast to/from Gt Missenden.

I don't think it will be that difficult to operate moving block signalling/ATO/ATP with Network Rail's AWS/ATP. Yes LU does need less complication-but not at the expense of train services!

Utimately, the Met was there first!

[a60]

The S Stock looks like a deformed pig's face.

[metman]

Ha ha ha! Yup it does have that look about it! I found some stats on it the other day. By getting a couple of tape measures out I worked out that if 2+2 seating was included in between the bays of double doors an 80cm gangway could be used! It does upset me that it won't happen!

The mixed seating looks really silly-I bet there is nowhere else in the world with it! I'd keep the A stock if I could!

[Ben]

LT ran in the past with far more complication, and it ran far more reliabley! If the new stock is all its cracked up to be, and the sharing of tracks presents a problem, then why not take over the line to Aylesbury for operational ease?

I doubt co-existance as now will be a problem though.

[metman]

Not if ATO is going to be delayed/canned! I doubt LU will go north of Amersham, nobody will pay for the substations etc to be installed! Look at the problems getting money for this Croxley Link!

Now-what worries me is that if ATO is delayed by many many years the capacity increase promised is NOT going to happen, leaving Met line customers in a very real disadvantage-espcially with a 30(odd)% loss of seats!

10tph to Uxbridge wouldn't happen and more worryingly, the T cup service proposed could really dig up some operational headaches in the Edgware Rd area without ATO!

[Deleted]

having traveled on the A stock today they are better than they were they have managed to fix the banging problem what was anoying someone was playing with the doors near wembley park so that didn't help

[metman]

Maybe you got a good unit! I never knew what the banging was? The ride is far better now track replacement is well underway. Considering the age of the stock they perform very well-and they don't have the worst reliability either!! Damn kids playing with the doors no doubt!

[Deleted]

well the banging was a deries of loud thuds followed by a big bounce it was taked about here
districtdave.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=met&action=display&thread=1186492096

the train was going very slow north of wembley park I looked through the window to the next car and saw some chavs kicking them so I think the pilot light may have been off then at wembley I thought the driver was either changing or awaiting the stick I looked out and saw a green looked back up the train and saw the chavs pulling them and kicking them the driver then announced that everybody would be chucked out if they carried on then he kept saying he didn't care and kept talking bout his wages