Circle Line stock, 1971

[Deleted]

Hi all,

I've just added another LT photo to my fotopic site, at the moment in "New Additions!" before being moved to the "London Transport" collection:

geoff-plumb.fotopic.net/p35007521.html

Not knowing much about the stock, the caption is a little sparse at the moment. I think the further train consists of CP stock and the nearer train of CO stock - can anyone confirm or correct this please?

Once again, thanks in anticipation.

Regards,
Geoff

[Chris W]

Fantastic photo Geoff

I believe the you are right in that the CP DM's are designated by the rectangular box (I believe air opening) to the top of the cab.

I am happy to be corrected if I'm wrong

Regards

Christopher

PS: have you got any more photos of CO/CP/R stock cars or units - I grew up with them on the DL until they were withdrawn when I was 8 and 10 years old respectively and wish I'd traveled on them more than I did.

[william]

cjw said:

I believe the you are right in that the CP DM's are designated by the rectangular box (I believe air opening) to the top of the cab.

Externally I can't think of any other difference, however the internal differences were more obvious, the main being the guards controls were in the cab of the O stock similar to the unrefurbished C stock, with the guard working the doors from the rear drivers cab.

[Oracle]

The left one appears to be CP stock from the stencilliing, and the other CO. Have you got any more such photos Geoff please? It seems only yesterday that the red stock, with the silver R Stock held sway. I can I believe remember travelling on the painted stock from Hounslow West, although I distinctly remember the maps showing the HW branch.

[Deleted]

william said:

Externally I can't think of any other difference, however the internal differences were more obvious, the main being the guards controls were in the cab of the O stock similar to the unrefurbished C stock, with the guard working the doors from the rear drivers cab.

I love pictures of CO / CP / R stocks as well ... more please !

Internally another obvious difference between a CO and a CP was the transverse seats on a CO had tall seat backs, where as a CP had more conventional seat backs coming up to the bottom of the window level. Not sure about a COP trailer though ? Did they match the type they were formed with ?

However thanks to Hindenberg for the long list of differences to the car exteriors ! I'd never have spotted all them !

I'm curious as to why was there no exterior butterfly cock on a CO DM ? How were a set of doors opened in an emergency ?

[Deleted]

Hi,
Thanks for all the replies - there is a great knowledge base on this forum! I have updated the caption accordingly.

I do have more shots hidden away in my slide drawers, I'll try and get some more out and test the knowledge again ;D

Regards,
Geoff

[Deleted]

aspect said:

I'm curious as to why was there no exterior butterfly cock on a CO DM ? How were a set of doors opened in an emergency ?

Maybe the logic was that passengers could be detrained via the cab? Pure guess, though!

[Deleted]

CO DM A end cars had no vents above the door, D end cars did have them.

[william]

aspect said:

Internally another obvious difference between a CO and a CP was the transverse seats on a CO had tall seat backs, where as a CP had more conventional seat backs coming up to the bottom of the window level. Not sure about a COP trailer though ? Did they match the type they were formed with ?

All CO trailer cars had the transverse seat backs up to the bottom of the window level as in the CP design.

[cdr113]

apologies if its been asked elsewhere, but what exactly does a metadyne machine do? is it some type of traction control equipment?

[towerman]

Yes,basically traction current from the pick-up shoes comes in one end of the machine and it puts out a voltage the other end to work the traction motors,apparently it gave very smooth acceleration but it wasn't very reliable and the system was very complicated,all metadyne machines were removed from the O & P stocks in the mid 50's leaving just a couple of battery locos fitted,these were scrapped in the early 70's.

[mandgc]

I see the two trains in Farringdon sidings both show the Set number '21'

Perhaps one stabled on Friday night and the other on Saturday night ?

[tubeprune]

mandgc said:

I see the two trains in Farringdon sidings both show the Set number '21'

Perhaps one stabled on Friday night and the other on Saturday night ?

No, actually, at the time this photo was taken, trains on the Circle were numbered 211-217 inner rail and 201-207 outer rail and they still are. The three normally stabled at Farringdon are all inner rail starts so they all have 21x numbers. The night chargehand fitter there used to set up the train numbers ready for the morning. He only needed to get a call from the foreman at Hammersmith to tell him which train was to get which third digit. That's why you can see 21 + blank on each train. By the time we arrived in the early mornings to prepare our trains he had put the full 3-digit number on the end of each train so we knew which one was ours.

The above mentioned chragehand ran a meat market stall at Romford during the day and got his meat from the Smithfield Market round the corner from the station. He offered us crews meat at good prices too. I remember he did very good sausages. I expect that sort of thing is banned by the EU now.

[Deleted]

Hi,
Thanks for all the further replies, including the query with regard to the "21" on both trains, about which I too was curious, so thanks for explaining that one tubeprune!

Regards,
Geoff

[ant]

You've got a great collection of shots there Geoff..well done. I like the mix of old and new. It's interesting to compare these 1970's shots on the Underground with what was happening on the New York Subway at the time. From the Joe Testagrove collection on nycsubway.org graffiti started over there as early as 1968...by 1971 it was looking really trash but not quite how it looked by the early 80's. Anyone whos ridden Rome's metropolitana will know how bad it was...

[tubeprune]

ant said:

It's interesting to compare these 1970's shots on the Underground with what was happening on the New York Subway at the time. From the Joe Testagrove collection on nycsubway.org graffiti started over there as early as 1968...by 1971 it was looking really trash but not quite how it looked by the early 80's. Anyone whos ridden Rome's metropolitana will know how bad it was...

I worked for the New York Subway's rehab programme in 1982-3. It was great fun. They still had R10s there then, where the conductor worked the doors from outside the train.

I went all over the system, mostly on test trains with the motormen. We suggested all sorts of things to get rid of the graffiti, including cleaning every train as soon as it got hit. Zero tolerance it was called later.

[prjb]

tubeprune said:

The above mentioned chragehand ran a meat market stall at Romford during the day and got his meat from the Smithfield Market round the corner from the station. He offered us crews meat at good prices too. I remember he did very good sausages. I expect that sort of thing is banned by the EU now.

Isn't it funny how some things never change? There is a driver at Edgware Road who supplies a vast number of the crews and other staff with good quality meat at very reasonable prices. Oddly, his sausages are very good too!