PiccEx Junction

[mrfs42]

Will there still be provision for Terminal 4 trains to take WY1 with 10 points reverse and then briefly run wrong line through PiccEx junction to Platform 1 (WB) at Terminals 1,2,3 and regain the EB at T123 through the scissors - or have 10 points been recovered and changed to PiccEx WB points; I know that WY9 has been moved and turned through 180 degrees.

(Just thinking silly thoughts about T5 - T123 - Hatton Cross - T4 - T123 - T5 rusty rail trips)

[Deleted]

AFAIK it will still be possible for trains ex-T4 to run wrong line from PiccEx Junction to T123, then regain the e/b using the trailing component of the scissors crossover east of there. Such a move certainly remains possible today - I have traveled through both platforms at T123 on trains ex-T4 since the completion of PiccEx Junction.

I wonder if said scissors will remain intact one T5 opens, or if it will be simplified.

[Oracle]

Would it not make a whole lot of sense should a train be required to overtake another, a stalled train, congestion relief, et al!

[mrfs42]

theonekea said:

AFAIK it will still be possible for trains ex-T4 to run wrong line from PiccEx Junction to T123, then regain the e/b using the trailing component of the scissors crossover east of there. Such a move certainly remains possible today - I have traveled through both platforms at T123 on trains ex-T4 since the completion of PiccEx Junction.

Cheers. That helps a lot. ;D ;D

theonekea said:

I wonder if said scissors will remain intact one T5 opens, or if it will be simplified.

Well, the question arose in part from thinking about WY7 - new stick from T5 - is PiccEx Junction between RWY2^BWY2^A and WY2^B? I had the thought that WY7 and WY2^A might both have the repeater RWY2^B7^B underneath and WY2^B also becomes WY7^B.

[mrfs42]

oracle said:

Wou;d it not make a whole lot of sense should a train be required to overtake another, a stalled train, congestion relief, et al!

Exactly my thoughts.

[Oracle]

There is the other, very distant, possibility that a train might be sent T4 to T123, as usual, into the EB Platform, and thence to PiccEx and T5 to cover a large gap. If such is permissible now. If you stop the flexibility, the very next day you will regret it.

I still remember the discussions amongst my LURS brethren about the removal of the North Ealing #-over, which whilst time-expired could have been very handy on occasions since. Ahem!!

[Deleted]

Signals from T5 e/bound are as follows :- X399, RWY7/1, RWY7/2, WY7, then RWY72a (don't know how to make the 'a' go up in the air!) which comes BEFORE the junction. WY72a is situated just after the junction - if you come from T4 you can get held at this signal if there is a train in T123 platform 2. The majority of the train will be straddling the junction when held here from either branch. Having not had my training to T5 yet, I can't give you any more details of how it will all work in practice.

This does lead me nicely in to my next point, which is that WTT43 will start on Jan 13th, with 12tph down the Heathrow branch, split equally between T123/5 and T4. Staff training will start on this date, with the new station opening in March. There will also be 3 trains outstabled at South Harrow,with two extra trains needed for service off peak.

[mrfs42]

upinthesky said:

Signals from T5 e/bound are as follows :- X399, RWY7/1, RWY7/2, WY7, then RWY72a (don't know how to make the 'a' go up in the air!) which comes BEFORE the junction. WY72a is situated just after the junction - if you come from T4 you can get held at this signal if there is a train in T123 platform 2. The majority of the train will be straddling the junction when held here from either branch.

Lovely! Thank-you very much indeed. Now, putting my thinking cap on is this: www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/121773/04.%20Looking%20towards%20Plat.%202.JPEG/1 [(lifted from:)http://districtdave.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=picc&action=display&thread=1164982759 where TOK is asking about WY] shewing WY72^A at red in the distance? (I ask this question and further ones in general, rather than just to you).

upinthesky said:

Having not had my training to T5 yet, I can't give you any more details of how it will all work in practice.

Oh, you've been more than a help! Thank-you.

The last parts of the enigma are in www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/121773/06.%20Tunnel%20from%20T4.JPG/1 which is captioned as from T4, which way is the photographer (doclivcm) looking - towards T5 or T123? I'm fairly sure that he's looking away from T123 towards T5.

And finally does the T4 loop go under or over the new line? A close in look at www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/121773/18.%20Line%20towards%20T5.JPG/1 shews what looks like a crossover in the far tunnel, which I guess must be the old (WY) 10 points for T4 trains to access either platform at T123, the light line seems to give the impression that the left hand tunnel is descending into the distance before curving to the left and heading off to T5 (bending to the right at some point out of shot. Or am I confusing myself?

Any thoughts, as ever, very welcome. ;D

[Deleted]

Ah yes my album.
OK here goes:
Pic 1: This is PiccEx Jcn looking towards T123 Plat.2. There is no WY72a. I believe you are referring to WY2a which is the one shown here in the distance. The last signals from T5 before it joins the 'old metals' here are WY7 then RWY2a.
Pic 2: This is again standing at PiccEx Jcn. I have now turned around and faced the other way towards T4. The right hand tunnel in the picture comes from T5. In the distance is No.10 points with the line to Plat.1 coming from the left.
Pic 3:This is the line from Plat.1 to T5 W/B. The tunnel on the right is the one from No.10 points.
The line to T5 goes off to the left in the picture before diving under the loop and out of shot will then go round to the right up to T5.
Hope this helps.

DOC

[mrfs42]

doclivcm said:

Ah yes my album.
OK here goes:
[snip, snip]
Hope this helps.

DOC

It does indeed! Many thanks, you are truly helpful. ;D ;D ;D

[Deleted]

Fantastic, and interesting pictures!

[superteacher]

Interesting point reagarding simplifcation of signalling and / or track. There are lots of examples all over the system where things were simplified in the years of declining traffic, which are now regretted. North Ealing was mentioned - another one on the Picc is Covent Garden crossover. Hopefully, they won't simplify things when T5 opens.

[Oracle]

Hounslow Central must have been a candidate for removal in the past, especially as S-S Stock cannot get past Northfields Depot now. I suggest that you remove it at your peril!

[railtechnician]

With regard to the designation of T123 points & signals in connection with T5, I note that WY7 is a new signal, that WY9 has been turned, that 10s clamplock points have become 10B points with a set of M63s as 10A points and that there is a new trailing set of M63s at the PiccEX junction convergence into the eastbound platform.

My recollection of the lever frame at T123 was 1,2,3,4,9 as eastbound home and starting signals, 5 & 6 as the scissors crossover, 7 as the release lever, 8 as a spare lever, 12 & 11 as westbound approach/ home signals and 10 as the eastbound diverging junction lever.

There is no longer a release lever as this function is now achieved with a relay and obviously 7s lever now controls the new WY7 signal and 10s lever controls a crossover rather than a diverging junction.

Okay here's the question.

Is the new eastbound junction from T5 and the T4 loop now controlled by 8 lever and has WY9 not only been turned but also become the westbound platform starting signal?

Brian

[Deleted]

Yes and Yes!

DOC ;D

[railtechnician]

Thank you for the confirmation.

Brian