38TS on the Piccadilly Line

[Deleted]

In the dim and distant I travelled on 38TS on both the Northern and Bakerloo lines (and the middle carriage on the Hainault shuttle) but never managed to pick one up on the Piccadilly line. Could one of you knowledgeable coves explain when the 38s were on the Piccadilly line, when they were withdrawn and the rough percentage of the fleet they contributed to. I did see an interesting photo on one of the other items showing Standard, 38TS, 56TS and 59TS in a depot (Northfields I think) so I assume they all ran together for a period of time so any further info on that would be welcome too.

[trc666]

The 38 stock survived long enough to see Hatton Cross, whilst the 59s lasted a bit longer to see the arrival of Heathrow Central (now Terminals 1,2,3) before being replaced by the 73 stock.

[Deleted]

ISTR reading that the Piccadilly Line received approximately 15 trains of 1938TS that were created after the construction of the 1949TS UNDMs; these 15 trains were originally destined for the Bakerloo, to increase the pool of trains available in preparation for an extension south of Buffalo and Rook.

[towerman]

The reason you didn't see 38TS a lot on the Piccadilly was 1.only 15 trains2.they were mainly used as peak time trains.As to withdrawal,all non standard trains were withdrawn first which were the Bakerloo's with standard stock trailers,all trains with UNDM's which I believe were the majority of the Piccadilly's allocation.

[metman]

Yeah, the Bakerloo used 1927ts trailers in the 3 car set (there was a crash between Watford Junction and the High St where a 501 hit the back of a 38ts and the other cars telescoped into the 27 trailer) and there was a move to remove these cars. The 49ts UNDM were scrapped from 1972 to make way for the 72ts. Parts from the 49ts UNDM were used in the 72ts UNDM and these bits were only replaced in the 1990s! It seems strange that the post war build of '1938' stock only had a short life-in the same way as the R49 and R59 cars did.

[Oracle]

I loved the 1938 Stock on the Piccadilly, especially when going to school from 1966 onwards to Osterley and back, and then when I started commuting in July 1973 to Holborn. The stock disappeared for a time: this was due to compressor shortgaes elsewhere, but a few trains came back just in time to reach Hatton Cross though I never witnessed one.

[Deleted]

metman said:

Yeah, the Bakerloo used 1927ts trailers in the 3 car set (there was a crash between Watford Junction and the High St where a 501 hit the back of a 38ts and the other cars telescoped into the 27 trailer) and there was a move to remove these cars. The 49ts UNDM were scrapped from 1972 to make way for the 72ts. Parts from the 49ts UNDM were used in the 72ts UNDM and these bits were only replaced in the 1990s! It seems strange that the post war build of '1938' stock only had a short life-in the same way as the R49 and R59 cars did.

The 49TS were scrapped first because they were non-standard. The bogies, and various other bits, were different from the 38TS.

[metman]

Didn't they have beamless shoegear like the R38-49 stock initially?

[Deleted]

metman said:

Yeah, the Bakerloo used 1927ts trailers in the 3 car set (there was a crash between Watford Junction and the High St where a 501 hit the back of a 38ts and the other cars telescoped into the 27 trailer)

Really........do you know what year this was?

[railtechnician]

trc666 said:

The 38 stock survived long enough to see Hatton Cross, whilst the 59s lasted a bit longer to see the arrival of Heathrow Central (now Terminals 1,2,3) before being replaced by the 73 stock.

I travelled on them as a lad when visiting my aunt in Uxbridge. When I joined LTE in 1977 there were AFAIK no 38TS left on the PIcc. The 73TS was still arriving so 59TS was still in regular use at the time.

Certainly the Northern and Bakerloo were still operating 38TS at the time including one or two experimental cars. I recall one had oval windows and carpet too and another had some other non-standard floor covering.

Brian

[metman]

The Watford Junction/High St collision was in Feb 1963. I dug out the site for it too.
www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/listing.php?showSearch=true&text=&startYear=all&endYear=all&development=all&category=all&author=all&publisher=all&published=all&submit=Go&event=1409

[Deleted]

metman said:

The Watford Junction/High St collision was in Feb 1963.

Thanks Metman

Also, carpet on a tube train! Were any dedicated 'luxury' cars ever done, for members of the board, royalty etc? I know the various main line companies had such vehicles a very very long time ago (Victorian/Edwardian era).

[metman]

I'd never heard about the carpet! Would be a nightmare today! Its pretty common knowledge that the Met had its two pullmans but it also had a reconstructed car (made from two 4 wheelers) called the Rothschild saloon. It was used to supplement the pullman fleet. All three cars were scrapped in 1939-40. The District used LTS cars which included composite coaches with lavs.

There was a 49ts car called the sunshine or vista car with glass that extended into the roof. They did have oval windows where the door pockets were-this seems strange to me as it let less light in and was a little regressive-considering oval windows were a 1920s thing (1920ts/F stock/U-bahn). The vista car was scrapped in the 70s.

[Deleted]

metman said:

Met had its two pullmans but it also had a reconstructed car (made from two 4 wheelers) called the Rothschild saloon.

Of course! Forgot about that.................I so wish these vehicles made it to preservation

metman said:

There was a 49ts car called the sunshine or vista car with glass that extended into the roof.

I have heard this being described as 'Old Porthole'.........I believe it worked on the Northern for all of it's time and wasn't too popular with crew/passengers.

[Oracle]

Car # 10306 ( I remember it well) was converted in 1948 I think, and was in a train that used to be parked at the Northfields side of the depot on the depot track nearest the WB. On reflection it might have also been parked on the track nearest the depot road asw ell where they used to park the test trains. I used to see it all the time on the way to work! Was the train there for brake block or sand drag testing?

There is a photo of it here:
overground.doeth.net/heights/

[railtechnician]

metman said:

I'd never heard about the carpet!

Yep LT was always testing all sorts of things and where better to test a potential new flooring material than in service.

Chiswick works was an interesting place from the testing point of view too. The entrance used to have various flooring materials embedded in the pavement open to the elements and hundreds of feet per day to give them proper wear tests.

The scientific section used to test paint on the roof of the Chiswick Works labs. There'd be panel after panel set on easels at an angle each painted with a different formula.

Of course Acton and Chiswick were good venues for tests and experiments with the Chief Signal Engineer's Office just across the tracks!

[SE13]

A while ago, I started THIS THREAD with regard to The 38 stock on The Picc, and there are few good answers in there.....