There's no door!

[Colin]

One for bakerloo Bill perhaps?

As the Bakerloo 72ts (and vic) trains don't have cab doors - how does the driver contact the signalman on the signal post telephone?

[Deleted]

colin said:

As the Bakerloo 72ts (and vic) trains don't have cab doors - how does the driver contact the signalman on the signal post telephone?

Opens the M door, and walks along the little walkways that are provided, that are underneath the front windows; see picture!



img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/met_apprentice/DSCF2099.jpg

[q8]

Now two things in this picture puzzle me?

img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/met_apprentice/DSCF2099.jpg

Firstly, it's location. It's obviously north of QP but where exactly?

Secondly, the coupler appears to have no dutch ovens. Is it a mechancle only effort?

[Deleted]

q8 said:

Now two things in this picture puzzle me?

img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/met_apprentice/DSCF2099.jpg

Firstly, it's location. It's obviously north of QP but where exactly?

Secondly, the coupler appears to have no dutch ovens. Is it a mechancle only effort?

The location looks like Willesden to me.

The outer end of the 3 car units of 72 stock trains only have mechanical couplers as they will only ever be coupled to in an emergency.

[q8]

Yes I thought at first it was Willesden too but what throws me is that there are only two AC tracks on the left not four?

[Bakerloo Bill]

as met apprentice correctly states, we use the m-door to get on the spt - there are step-plates on the front of the train. in reality people will usually just step down off the coupler though. and we are supposed to use the guards door in the depot (although in practise the majority of drivers just use the m-door as a result, a lot of the guards doors don't operate with the selecter key anymore due to years of disuse)

jim also correctly states that is willesden junction up platform, the road on the left with no platform is used by goods trains to get from the north london line to the LMR...

jim is also correct about the coupler - as the units are always the same way round with the 3-car unit at the north end, (i think thats the reason for it anyway)

[Deleted]

Isn't that a little dangerous? What if the T/Op accidently came into contact with the power rails? As for the Vic trains, I heard (I think from Tubeprune's site) that once a Vic Line T/Op got out to 'phone the signaller while the stick was red. As he was speaking, the stick went green and the train shot past the T/Op. He had to hitch a ride on the next train to get into his now driverless train.

[Deleted]

axewielder said:

Isn't that a little dangerous? What if the T/Op accidently came into contact with the power rails? As for the Vic trains, I heard (I think from Tubeprune's site) that once a Vic Line T/Op got out to 'phone the signaller while the stick was red. As he was speaking, the stick went green and the train shot past the T/Op. He had to hitch a ride on the next train to get into his now driverless train.

The signal was green, and the driver pressed the start button. Due to a sticky door, the train wouldn't go anywhere, so the driver left the cab to free the door. As the door was freed, and detected as being closed, the train thus promtly drove itself minus driver to the next stop. Whether or not there is a cab door wouldn't have made any difference to this situation. The driver took road transport to the next station, as obviously he couln't take the next train to catch up with his train could he!

[subwayrail]

With regard to Watson374 and stephenk, Watson’s version is the closest to all of the versions I have heard of the Vic line incident (naturally everyone tells it slightly differently). The problem was that the driver had not properly secured the train as per procedures, so it picked up when it received a 270 code (i.e. the signal cleared). As a result of this the 67’s got an M-door interlock fitted.

I don’t know the situation on the Bakerloo, but on the Vic we can use the SPTs from inside the cab (between stations), simply by lowering the droplight window, after following proper procedures.

[Deleted]

It's always amazed me why they just cant fit the phone on a post, say 20ft before the respective signal, at cab window height, so then all the T/Op has to do is lower the window or open the door....instead of having the step down, risking a slip or a fall. of course, having it mounted on a pole throws up the problem of stopping level with it....

[yellowsignal]

The lack of an M-door interlock was potentially deadly if the signal had cleared when the driver was stepping out or in front of the train.

Will the Connect system make it easier to contact the signaller? In theory you can phone him from the cab.

[Deleted]

yellowsignal said:

Will the Connect system make it easier to contact the signaller? In theory you can phone him from the cab.

You could phone the signaller from the cab to get information. If he needed to give you authority to pass the signal at danger, you would still need to get out and use the signal phone.

[Deleted]

Stephenk, the Victoria is underground. Since when did cars or whatever run in tube tunnels? Or are you suggesting that the T/Op walked out of the station, drove to the next stop, entered the station and hopped down to the tracks, got up the M door and opened the doors?

[Deleted]

axewielder said:

Stephenk, the Victoria is underground. Since when did cars or whatever run in tube tunnels? Or are you suggesting that the T/Op walked out of the station, drove to the next stop, entered the station and hopped down to the tracks, got up the M door and opened the doors?

Don't patronise me. The T/Op got a cab to the next station.

[Deleted]

Who paid for it?

[Colin]

Does it really matter who paid for it?

For your info, LUL has a contract with one of the black cab firms - so that would have covered it.

I hope your curiosity is now completely satisfied on this subject.

[prjb]

In any case, he didn't get a cab. He was in the tunnel, there is a shortage of cabs down there! ;D
Without going into too much detail or re-starting this whole spat, he boarded the train behind and that is all the details I am willing to provide.

[Deleted]

Ain't that what I said?

[Deleted]

How threads wander ...this would now sit better on the Victoria Line ;D ;D
I wonder if our contributors may in fact be quoting differing incidents in any case.

There have been a number of incidents where a dangerous situation has arisen because persons involved failed to follow correct procedure and very importantly failed to make sure of there own safety in astonishing circumstances.

There was certainly an incident on the Victoria Line, but it was many years ago now, where a t/op stopped in auto at a red signal, failed to secure/ shut down the train in accordance with procedure when exiting to use a signal phone (it is usually possible in any event to switch the train to coded manual and move up to the signal phone and use it from the cab window). The signal cleared and the train quiet properly continued on it's way. A lucky and slim operator was able to press against the tunnel wall. The following train stopped at the signal (as the driverless train was now stopped in the station ahead) and the driver hitched a lift in that train under rule. As a result an M door interlock was fitted requiring a train to be re-stroked (set up in Auto again) if the M door is opened (or, as sometimes happens, comes open). This may only be done at a station starter, reselecting auto between stations is not permitted as the train will not pick up braking spot commands for 100 or so meters. In these circumstances the driver must drive the train manually on GREEN (not white) signals to the next station.

The other incidents that come to mind, may be a Piccadilly Line driver, who had quiet inappropriately set up his own version of auto on a train, which kicked in after he went back to free a sticky door, and the train shot off, stopping only when it was tripped on a signal.

On the Victoria Line a train can NOT be set off in auto, unless the door circuit is proved (all doors closed). The driver could not select auto, then go to shut doors from the platform side, for the two reasons, auto not selectable whilst door circuit not proved and M door interlock. However ........

the only circumstance where this is possible, is where a door circuit HAS been proved and auto selected, then, perhaps before the train has moved, a door is THEN opened (perhaps on a butterfly). The train will cease to motor and remain in off and release, coasting if it is moving. If it has not yet started to motor and on a level platform it may trick an operator into thinking auto has not engaged. If the operator then exits the train through the leading end guards AND closes that door AND then closes the butterfly door the train would move off, however there are some pretty big if's here and it still requires the operator to have failed to secure the train in accordance with procedure when leaving the cab. Less "if's" are if the driver walks through the inside of the train to locate the open door, but at least the operator will be on the train somewhere if it then shoots off !

(The much publicised Highbury Incident about 5 years ago, was caused, by a butterfly being operated maliciously as a train pulled away, the train coasted and the open door moved into a tunnel before the operator, noticed the problem had been caused by loss of the door closed proved visual. There was more too it than that but hey ....)

Another lucky was a Duty Manager securing failed points in front of a a Vic line train. The DMT had operated the wrong track protection circuit (which sets signals and track codes to danger) and in consequence when the point blades were paddled to the correct position the circuit made, the signal went green and the train advanced toward the shocked DMT. The alert operator obviously then applied the emergency brakes.

I should stress however, that these incidents were some time ago and resulted from failure to follow correct procedure, astonishingly so in some cases. When I was an Instructor on the Victoria Line, i took great pains to ensure trainees were versed in these nuances to ensure they didn't get caught out by them !!!

[towerman]

There was a story going the rounds that a fitter got trapped in the tunnel on the Victoria Line and was there for an hour before someone spotted him,don't know how true that one is though.

[Tom]

I've heard that one too...
Victoria Car Examiner going to attend to a missing tail light.
He sat in the rear cab and when the train stopped (supposedly at Brixton), he jumped out and started to relamp the offending tail light. Then the train shot off and he realised he was at Brixton, but not the platform. He was at VE12, the home signal, and had to run out of the pipe sharpish.

[towerman]

The story we heard was that it was between Finsbury Pk & Seven Sisters and he hid in a bolt hole,about 10 trains went by till a T/Op saw him.