bakerloo line to strike at 10pm tonight

[Deleted]

Tube line staff to go on strike

Union leaders say the proposals will compromise workers' safety
Staff on the Bakerloo Tube Line start a 24-hour strike later, after talks failed to resolve a dispute over workers' safety.
The RMT union opposes the way staff are expected to move passengers from trains north of Queen's Park station.

The union insists two station staff and the driver should empty trains, but London Underground (LU) say one worker and the driver can do it safely.

RMT members returned a 94.5% vote for strike action which begins at 2200 BST.

'Completely unnecessary'

RMT general secretary Bob Crow said reducing staffing levels at Queen's Park, Willesden Junction and Harrow and Wealdstone stations would expose workers to the risk of assault.

"At talks earlier this week we reminded LU that having a minimum of two station staff on duty at stations where detraining takes place is essential, not least at stations with high crime levels, but the company has refused to budge."

Describing the strike as "completely unnecessary" an LU spokesman said: "This change merely means that, in the exceptional circumstances that two staff are not available, the procedure can be carried out by one member of station staff with the assistance of the train operator."

He added there was no compromise on safety and the change would mean less inconvenience for passengers.

[Deleted]

So this is a strike about how many people should de-train a train!?

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the majority of the time it is one person and the driver anyway, and sometimes just the driver! If I am correct, then what is the point of this strike?

[Oracle]

The union insists two station staff and the driver should empty trains, but London Underground (LU) say one worker and the driver can do it safely.

+ 1 station staff required

[Deleted]

Bakerloo ADVANCE NOTICE: Services on the Bakerloo line are subject to disruption on Friday 20 July due to strike action. Please check before you travel and if necessary use alternative Tube, rail and bus services.

Message received 10:17am

[Deleted]

vbn said:

So this is a strike about how many people should de-train a train!?

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the majority of the time it is one person and the driver anyway, and sometimes just the driver! If I am correct, then what is the point of this strike?

No, it's generally two detrainment staff who tip out. The driver only does the first two cars if one is missing for some reason.

That's not really the issue though. It's the fact that they want a single member of staff to remain on duty at places like Willesden and Harrow which are not the most salubrious of locations. For reasons which are beyond me, groups of youths regularly hang out on the platforms for no particular reason (trainspotters maybe! ;D ). And as these are currently Silverlink stations the detrainment staff cannot check cctv to see if it is safe to enter the platform and often don't even know if the cctv is working. The ticket gates are generally left open after about 5pm so anybody can wander in or out as they please. Should something happen to the detrainment staff there might not be a train due for ten minutes - or much, much longer should the service north of QP be suspended.

Once LUL take over the stations I'd hope that most of these problems would disappear but I know I'd still be uneasy at being out there alone.

[Colin]

So how about at the likes of Wimbledon then?

At Wimbledon, drivers have to 'tip out' late at night on their own.

Upminster could be in the same category really- yes there are generally a couple of security guards about; But it isn't actually their job to 'tip out' our trains - they are employed by c2c (via a contractor) and are not trained in LUL procedures.

In fact the same could be said at most terminus locations - I only ever saw the station staff once at Ealing Broadway in the two years I regularly tipped out there....................that was a station supervisor and he just stood & watched me do it. That's right, he didn't even bother to help; I wonder what he'd bother to do if anything ever did 'kick off'?.

For the past year I've regularly tipped out at High Street Ken - number of times that station staff helped? Errmm...........0! Mind you, they obviously look at their CCTV judging by the PA's they put out.

Whilst I don't question the merits of this industrial action - I rather suspect it is more than justified - I do wonder why the RMT is only worried about the Bakerloo line. It should be a network wide issue.....................ie, we need more station staff not less (re: loss of ticket offices, shorter working week, etc). Then again, the RMT agreed to those didn't they

[Deleted]

I agree with them on one staff at places like Harrow, you couldn't pay me enough to do that on my own, especially at nights! Fair enough, they have my backing on it.

Cheers for giving more detail gappe.

[Deleted]

Not that NW London is a 'nice place', but why don't all LU stations have 2 staff from the start of the day until the end? There are loads of lone working Station Supervisors who work alone and are expected to operate a gateline/ ticket machines etc.

Although I'm not sure what (if any) agreement LU reached with unions over the detrainment on the Bakerloo.

[Deleted]

Agree with everything Gappe said.

Of course another point is that these detrainments have to take place on EVERY Bakerloo train on it's northbound trip. Not like chucking a few drunks off on your very last trip at Ealing or Wimbledon, it's every single train.

They are obviously expecting drivers to fully shut down, detrain the leading 2 cars, meet the SA to confirm detrainment, get back in (official way by using selecter key to open Guards door), open up the train and move the train out of the platform all in... wait for it... under 60 seconds! Not only is this totally impossible (another case of some of those in Broadway thinking the job is run by magic elves), Imagine the added pressure staff will be under, increased SPAD risk etc.

There have also been a number of assaults on drivers up there when they have been forced to detrain on their own.

We've seen what LUL are doing with the booking office closures, now its more operational - and NECESSARY - grades they are gunning for. I'm 100% behind the Bakerloo staff on this one.

[c5]

centralsimon said:

Not that NW London is a 'nice place', but why don't all LU stations have 2 staff from the start of the day until the end? There are loads of lone working Station Supervisors who work alone and are expected to operate a gateline/ ticket machines etc.

Although I'm not sure what (if any) agreement LU reached with unions over the detrainment on the Bakerloo.

And at certain out-lying stations where they sometimes go out alone and deal with someone who is not the nicest of people and has just walked down the track!

[Deleted]

Commenting on the proposed RMT strike action on the Bakerloo line on Friday 20 July, a TfL spokesperson said:

"This strike action is completely unnecessary and will not achieve anything.
"It is normal practice on the Bakerloo line, and across the network, that if two station staff are unavailable to ensure that the train is empty before it is returned to the depot, then the driver will assist.
"There has been an anomaly on this part of the Bakerloo Line which has meant that the train can only be cleared by two station staff and the driver cannot help on the rare occasions when two station staff are not available.
"This anomaly has caused unnecessary delays, inconveniencing passengers and sometimes resulting in a loss of services.
"The change in procedure is to correct this anomaly.
"There is no compromise on safety."

[Deleted]

Well that's entirely untrue! If there is only one member of detrainment staff then a DMT is usually sent up to assist. Of course that's more to do with tipping out quickly and is not out of regard for lone staff safety. Assaults are an acceptable risk but God forbid that the railway should be held up.

[Chris M]

gappe said:

Assaults are an acceptable risk but God forbid that the railway should be held up.

The world is run by bean counters these days.
When the trains get delayed it costs LU money (fines, compensation, overtime, bad statistics, bad press, etc)
When a member of staff gets assaulted it costs LU sick pay, sometimes cleaning costs, and, possibly, court costs (and I would imagine there is a high likely hood of them being awarded their costs).

Staff being assaulted obviously costs less (only monetarily, but accountants know the price of everything and the value of nothing)

[Deleted]

BAKERLOO LINE: Suspended between Queens Park and Harrow and Wealdstone due to industrial action.

[Deleted]

Tube services badly hit by strike

Union leaders say the proposals will compromise workers' safety
Services on the Bakerloo Tube line have been severely affected after staff went on strike in a row over safety.
The Rail Maritime and Transport union said 150 members were on a 24-hour walk out, starting at 2200 BST on Thursday.

Transport for London (TfL) said services have been suspended between Queen's Park and Harrow and Wealdstone.

But "very reduced services" are being operated between Queen's Park and Elephant and Castle. There are minor delays on the rest of the line.

Passengers were advised to use alternative train or Tube routes.

The union is protesting at changes it claims will leave staff working alone as they move passengers from trains at stations north of Queen's Park.

It insists two station staff and the driver should empty trains, but London Underground (LU) said one worker and the driver can do it safely.

'Completely unnecessary'

RMT members returned a 94.5% vote for strike action.

RMT general secretary Bob Crow said reducing staffing levels at Queen's Park, Willesden Junction and Harrow and Wealdstone stations would expose workers to the risk of assault.

He said: "At talks earlier this week we reminded LU that having a minimum of two station staff on duty at stations where detraining takes place is essential, not least at stations with high crime levels, but the company has refused to budge."

Describing the strike as "completely unnecessary", an LU spokesman said: "This change merely means that, in the exceptional circumstances that two staff are not available, the procedure can be carried out by one member of station staff with the assistance of the train operator."

He added there was no compromise on safety and the change would mean less inconvenience for passengers.

[Deleted]

You should probably quote and link to your your news sources Robster, due to copyright laws.

[Deleted]

awkward42 said:

gappe said:

Assaults are an acceptable risk but God forbid that the railway should be held up.

The world is run by bean counters these days.
When the trains get delayed it costs LU money (fines, compensation, overtime, bad statistics, bad press, etc)
When a member of staff gets assaulted it costs LU sick pay, sometimes cleaning costs, and, possibly, court costs (and I would imagine there is a high likely hood of them being awarded their costs).

Staff being assaulted obviously costs less (only monetarily, but accountants know the price of everything and the value of nothing)

Agreed, but having been on the receiving end of a rather nasty assault about 5 years ago, it's not summat I want to go through again... Time off, stress, recovery, fear, having to attend the court hearing... True yes the perpetrator got his punishment, and also had to pay a hefty court bill, including compensation to both parties [myself and employer].

[Chris M]

tubeoperator92 said:

awkward42 said:

The world is run by bean counters these days.
When the trains get delayed it costs LU money (fines, compensation, overtime, bad statistics, bad press, etc)
When a member of staff gets assaulted it costs LU sick pay, sometimes cleaning costs, and, possibly, court costs (and I would imagine there is a high likely hood of them being awarded their costs).

Staff being assaulted obviously costs less (only monetarily, but accountants know the price of everything and the value of nothing)

Agreed, but having been on the receiving end of a rather nasty assault about 5 years ago, it's not summat I want to go through again... Time off, stress, recovery, fear, having to attend the court hearing... True yes the perpetrator got his punishment, and also had to pay a hefty court bill, including compensation to both parties [myself and employer].

I fully agree with you and wouldn't wish it on anyone, but of things you mention only the time off appears on LU's balance sheet line, and the compensation will mitigate the impact of this.