Standard stock trailers running in 38s

[ruislip]

What was the reason for this? I have a picture of one in Capital Transport's history of the B'loo

[Deleted]

Weren't the trailers not very old compared to the 1938ts?

9-car trains were going to be used on the Northern Line so extra trailers and DMs were delivered as a result. When the 9-car scheme was dumped there were plenty of Driving Motors left, so they put a converted standard stock trailer between them. The 1949 order also helped to utilise the left over cars that couldn't be integrated into units.

[Deleted]

According to The 1938 Tube Stock, the "58 trailers" were included in the original plans for the 38TS as ordered in March 1937.

Basically, LT had 58 spare Standard stock trailers, and decided to use them in the new 38TS trains rather than scrap them. Not unreasonable, as the cost of an additional 58 new trailers would have been some £150,000.

[metman]

Sadly, the 27 stock trailers were found to be less than robust and the first was scrapped after telescoping in a collision near Watford High St in the 1960s after a run in with a 501!

[william]

Those cars were rather unpleasant to travel in as they were designated the smoking carriage and stank of cigarette smoke also the ceiling colour was nicotine yellow.

[Deleted]

william said:

Those cars were rather unpleasant to travel in as they were designated the smoking carriage and stank of cigarette smoke also the ceiling colour was nicotine yellow.

They had similar Standard type cars in the middle of the Woodford Hainault shuttle when I used to catch it from Woodford to Roding Valley (I was very lazy). I remember the appalling ride quality and the smoky smell although that was the excuse I used to come up with to mask the whiff of my actual smoking from my parents when I got in from school!

[metman]

They refurbished those trailers for the 60ts. They didn't do a bad job from the photos I saw-although clearly they couldn't hide the smell-lucky for you whistlekiller!!

[william]

metman said:

They refurbished those trailers for the 60ts. They didn't do a bad job from the photos I saw

I have also had the misfortune to travel in these as well, maybe they looked good on your photos but from my experience the refurb and re paint was appalling.

[Ben]

Which refurb and repaint? Apparetly the last mini refurb they underwent was in 1982/3, before being withdrawn just months later!

[metman]

These were photos when recently upgraded, so if you and whistlekiller say they looked horrible I'll go with you! After all I never travelled on them! They survived into the late 70s/early 80s so the cars would have been 50 years old plus!!

Speak of the devils...
www.ltmcollection.org/photos/popup.html?IXinv=1998/87014&IXimgsrc=i0000avg&IXimgheight=300&IXimgwidth=450

www.ltmcollection.org/photos/popup.html?IXinv=1998/59810&IXimgsrc=i0000avq&IXimgheight=450&IXimgwidth=333

[metman]

Dave's photo site has a couple of colour photos too:
www.trainweb.org/districtdave/html/odds_and_ends_4.html
www.trainweb.org/districtdave/html/odds_and_ends_5.html
www.trainweb.org/districtdave/html/odds_and_ends_2.html

[PGtrips]

rob said:

Weren't the trailers not very old compared to the 1938ts?

9-car trains were going to be used on the Northern Line so extra trailers and DMs were delivered as a result. When the 9-car scheme was dumped there were plenty of Driving Motors left, so they put a converted standard stock trailer between them. The 1949 order also helped to utilise the left over cars that couldn't be integrated into units.

I thought that actually the converse of this was the case. The 9 car trains were designed to work as block formations, without the ability to uncouple to something shorter in the off peaks, but provision was made for them to be uncoupled into 7 and 2 car portions in the event of an emergency. As I understand it, the 49TS UNDMs were used in a rather complex series of reformations to release one standard DM from a 3 car unit, which was then used with cars from the 9 car trains to form further 3 car units formed DM - T - UNDM. In any case, the 9 car sets were reduced to 7 car block trains on the outbreak of war and so there were a number of stored cars that were accounted for by the 1949 scheme.

sydneynick said:

According to The 1938 Tube Stock, the "58 trailers" were included in the original plans for the 38TS as ordered in March 1937.

Basically, LT had 58 spare Standard stock trailers, and decided to use them in the new 38TS trains rather than scrap them. Not unreasonable, as the cost of an additional 58 new trailers would have been some £150,000.

Wasn't this to do with the fact that the ultimate plan on the Central was to go for 8 car trains with four motor cars, implying a 50/50 mix of motors and trailers? This resulted in a number of control trailers being surplus as such and converted to trailer cars as well as the 58 spare 1927 trailers incorporated in the 38TS programme.

[metman]

Also Bakerloo std/gate stock trains ran as 6 cars[?] so some platform lengthening was needed in the 1940s I think. Yes the Central line took most of the oldest (1922-1927) Standard stock from the Northern Line and later the Bakerloo's. The trains started as 7 cars and then as more trailers became available they became 8 cars DM-T-T-DM+DM-T-T-DM although there were different formations as discussed on another thread.

It is interesting that alot of CT became trailers. I think when trains were first ordered they ran as DM-T-CT+CT-T-DM. At a later date, extra DM were added to the formations (1927 motors added to the 1923/5 sets) and one control trailer in the formation became a trailer (their A type controls were used in F stock cars?).

Please correct me if any of this is wrong!!

There is another thread about block 38ts units on the Northern line makes a good read.

[tubeprune]

The Standard Stock trailers were planned for incorporation into 1938TS formations after the all-motor car train idea was abandoned. They were indeed spare from the Central Line Standard Stock allocation as PGtrips says.

[metman]

Did anyone ever travel on a standard stock trailer that was converted from a control trailer. I have been reading that in the 1950s, the cab was stripped out and a pair of longitudinal seats inserted with two seats on each side. The J door was of course removed and little windows created in the bulkhead btw the (ex)cab and passenger saloon.

What I want to know is what happened to the other parts of the cab. The controls were reused I know, but did the side cab doors get replaced and did the cab windows get replaced? Of course the M doors had to remain!

[Tom]

metman said:

Did anyone ever travel on a standard stock trailer that was converted from a control trailer.

You mean the lovers' seats?

I've seen photos of them in use, but regretfully I'm too young...

[metman]

Yeah, that's what they were called! These days they would be the unofficial smoking section!!