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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2008 17:04:32 GMT
Hello,
i have a Ides - when the new 2009 Tube Stock delivered to the Victoria Line, the 1967 Tube Stock to the Bakerloo Line for a ATO Operation between Queens Park and Elephant & Castle.
the Trains for the Bakerloo are Mixed with the 1967 and 1972 Tube Stock!
the end DM´s are 1967 Tube Stock, the Middle DM´s are 1972 Tube Stock!
what do you think about this Idea?
Greetings
Dennis
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Post by zapper on Apr 8, 2008 17:52:41 GMT
I thought every LU line will be provided with ATO either way, first the deep level and later the subsurface ones. Correct me if I'm wrong  I don't get what's so fortunate about ATO anyway. I cannot imagine any of the drivers working on such a line regards it as a relief... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2008 20:03:03 GMT
Weren't the C stock and 72ts designed with ATO in mind as they had an 'Auto' position on the controller? Hence why some cab controls were in odd places.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2008 21:20:32 GMT
no, most drivers don't want it but management do.
as soon as they've got enough of us on it they'll come for our pay and conditions and put us on guards money. that's when it's time to bail out...
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Post by superteacher on Apr 9, 2008 0:19:18 GMT
It's not just a case of sending the 67TS to the Bakerloo - the line would need to be resignalled as well. Don't think it's worth the hassle - best wait until the line is upgraded and gets its own new stock.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2008 1:26:04 GMT
no, most drivers don't want it but management do. as soon as they've got enough of us on it they'll come for our pay and conditions and put us on guards money. that's when it's time to bail out... Weve had our differences on other matters, but I'm with you on this one |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2008 9:58:42 GMT
i have a Ides - when the new 2009 Tube Stock delivered to the Victoria Line, the 1967 Tube Stock to the Bakerloo Line for a ATO Operation between Queens Park and Elephant & Castle. It would be a waste on money. ATO is required to increase line capacity. The Bakerloo doesn't need extra capacity. I thought every LU line will be provided with ATO either way, first the deep level and later the subsurface ones. Correct me if I'm wrong I don't get what's so fortunate about ATO anyway. I cannot imagine any of the drivers working on such a line regards it as a relief... Not quite. The Jubilee, Northern, and Victoria are having ATO systems currently installed or in the late stages of planning. The SSL ATOing was being planned, but are now delayed for re-tendering. The Piccadilly will be ATO'ed in the early-mid 10s, and the Bakerloo is likely to be ATO'ed in the late 10's. Modern ATO systems allow for increased line capacity, and are safer than manually driven operation. The ATP utilised is also continuous, unlike train stops which are an intermittent form of ATP. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2008 19:38:01 GMT
I think an opportunity to install ATO on the Bakerloo was missed when it got the cascaded 1972mk2 stock from the Jubilee - which had been designed (I think) with capability for ATO of the sort used on the Victoria. I think it would have been an idea to install a version of the Vic's ATO setup on the Bakerloo at that point.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jul 14, 2008 23:15:49 GMT
i have a Ides - when the new 2009 Tube Stock delivered to the Victoria Line, the 1967 Tube Stock to the Bakerloo Line for a ATO Operation between Queens Park and Elephant & Castle. It would be a waste on money. ATO is required to increase line capacity. The Bakerloo doesn't need extra capacity. Actually, it does. The line is being worked to capacity now, which is why the line has (or at least had) such a SPAD problem on the approaches to Queen's Park and Elephant. Whatever happens, the Bakerloo won't go ATO beofre resignalling, which is still some seven years away at least. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2008 7:17:28 GMT
Weren't the C stock and 72ts designed with ATO in mind as they had an 'Auto' position on the controller? Hence why some cab controls were in odd places. 72 mk2s have an Auto position on the selector barrel, the mk1s don't. However they were never fully kitted out for ATO and as others have said ATO requires re-signalling as well as ATO fitted trains. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2008 10:05:17 GMT
It would be a waste on money. ATO is required to increase line capacity. The Bakerloo doesn't need extra capacity. Actually, it does. The line is being worked to capacity now, which is why the line has (or at least had) such a SPAD problem on the approaches to Queen's Park and Elephant. Whatever happens, the Bakerloo won't go ATO beofre resignalling, which is still some seven years away at least. Sorry, I'll rephrase myself. It is run to the limit of it's signalling capacity, but it still far from maximum passenger capacity. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2008 19:55:49 GMT
Bakerloo is very busy, from my experience.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2008 11:22:05 GMT
72 mk2s have an Auto position on the selector barrel, the mk1s don't. However they were never fully kitted out for ATO and as others have said ATO requires re-signalling as well as ATO fitted trains. How easy would it have been to retro-fit ATO to the 72 mk2s? Before they were totally converted to OPO, I recall them having most of the same controlls in the cabs as the '67 stock - including the "lever" door controls (pull up to open, down to close) and "start" buttons on the dashboard (although, oddly, only on the rigth hand side and not also on the drivers' side in the way the '67 stock does). I wonder how "ready" they were to have a Victoria line-type ATO system installed? Given how they started life on the Jubilee - which was originally intended to have just such an ATO, surely it wouldn't have been a "start-from-scratch" job? |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jul 16, 2008 18:45:35 GMT
They did actually have one test running on the Victoria for a while,but obviously nothing came of it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2008 7:39:45 GMT
Bakerloo is very busy, from my experience. I think it is probably the least crowded of all the tube lines. I used it quite often from 2004-2006 (Queens Park and Elephant) and managed to get a seat on approx 80% of commutes. Compare that to my commutes on the Jubilee, Victoria, and Northern Lines where the chance of getting a seat was almost nil. On the Victoria Line (NB Victoria) the chance of getting on the next train was sometimes nil! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2008 10:53:50 GMT
Bakerloo is very busy, from my experience. I think it is probably the least crowded of all the tube lines. I used it quite often from 2004-2006 (Queens Park and Elephant) and managed to get a seat on approx 80% of commutes. Compare that to my commutes on the Jubilee, Victoria, and Northern Lines where the chance of getting a seat was almost nil. On the Victoria Line (NB Victoria) the chance of getting on the next train was sometimes nil! I'm pretty sure the Met is the least crowded line. That's my experience with it, at least. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2008 12:28:37 GMT
I think it is probably the least crowded of all the tube lines. I used it quite often from 2004-2006 (Queens Park and Elephant) and managed to get a seat on approx 80% of commutes. Compare that to my commutes on the Jubilee, Victoria, and Northern Lines where the chance of getting a seat was almost nil. On the Victoria Line (NB Victoria) the chance of getting on the next train was sometimes nil! I'm pretty sure the Met is the least crowded line. That's my experience with it, at least. The Met is quite busy between Wembley Park and Baker Street in the am peak. The internal layout of the A stock doesn't help though as trains get crowded quite easily by standees once the seats are filled. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2008 7:01:10 GMT
I'm pretty sure the Met is the least crowded line. That's my experience with it, at least. The Met is quite busy between Wembley Park and Baker Street in the am peak. The internal layout of the A stock doesn't help though as trains get crowded quite easily by standees once the seats are filled. There are busier sections, like that one, but when you look at the average number of passengers per station it comes last, after the old East London Line, which has a lot to do with the many suburban branches the Met has. See here for the whole list. I know that there are limitations to measuring it like this, but there are other limitations to every other way of measuring it as well it seems.  |
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