How many more?

[Deleted]

Barney, do remember that the maximum amount of time there is to do works, is only about 4 hours a night, if that! And these works can be very urgent sometimes or something could go wrong, like in every-day life, so I don't think cash has anything to do with it!

/anger

However, I will say that TubeLines and Metronet are absolutely brown stuff at what they do, and I hope the dissapear very soon!

/end of anger *calms down*

[yellowsignal]

As a civil engineer (not with the trains mind you) i can tell you that however well prepared you are when you begin "in the field" you are always going to find things that are unexpected, and probably noone knows about any more.
I could tell you many stories of problems i have come across, one being a medieval city wall 8 meters deep where some sheet piling was to go 14 meters deep.
In the real world these things arise, some things can be resolved or worked around, others become real problems.

No company or person can realistically prevent all these problems. The reason why it didnt happen with LU (or less often) i think is the fact that not very much work was being done, so they could spread it out some more and build in some extra spare-time.

It really is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If they don't do this work every bit of kit will fail sooner or later, if they do replace it they will find some problems and overrun their alloted time for the works.
Either way people are shouting at the infraco's.

And by the way, they are fined if they overrun engineering hours, so it's probably not something they like to do.

So a little poll: what would you rather have, a re-occuring trackcircuit failure every few weeks plus a bumpy ride every time or a single overrun?

[Phil]

But also with experience in that field, smart planners have a list of jobs to be done sequentially during a shutdown: once the first is finished then the remaining time is reassessed as to whether the next can be done in time.

And yes, occasionally the first job meets such a big snag that either the job is reversed (if possible) or it has to be finished whatever the time outcome, i.e. an overrun

But it's a case of frequency isn't it? Once in a while is (almost) inevitable. This year there do seem to have been too many for comfort....

[Chris M]

And from the outside it appears they aren't learning. Perhaps they should start to be less ambitious in their plans and learn what it is that is going wrong and either correct it or factor it into their plans? Unless they are under a contract with LU to replace x miles of tracks in a certain amount of time - in which case they were probably too ambitious in their contract and they should seek to renegotiate with LU - it cannot be in the LU's interest to have so many engineering works overrun.

I know I would be useless as a scheduler, so I can't complain too much, but surely if the person responsible for planning is doing a rubbish job they should be replaced?

[yellowsignal]

rbruce1314 said:

Bonce the first is finished then the remaining time is reassessed as to whether the next can be done in time.

True, but if you rip up some track or cabling there's no way back...

Perhaps a single overrun is cheaper for the infraco than several failures...

Question for those in the know: Is the disruption of a single overrun much bigger than the disruption caused by your average failure?

[Deleted]

I'm quite suprised LU don't shut down for a Sunday a month, thats got to be better than over-running works?

[Deleted]

The fines levied on Tubelines/Metronet for 'failures' are heavy.

However, I guess there are 'get out' clauses built into contracts etc, but having NOT seen the actual contracts, I can't make a 100% agreement to this fact.

If you remember, Ken Livingstone wanted a 24/7 network, but to upgrade it to enable such traffic to be handled, whole sections would have to be shut for months on end. I don't think that would have been very popular with some of our long-standing commuters, particularly
Mr D Isgusted from Chesham....

[c5]

vbn said:

I'm quite suprised LU don't shut down for a Sunday a month, thats got to be better than over-running works?

Well from 2008, I am led to believe that each line wil finish early (around 9pm) every night to enable extra work to to be done

[Tubeboy]

Whatever option is taken, disruption is always a potential/real risk. I personally am in favour of shutting sections for months, to allow the work to be done quicker rather than closing for a weekend, I would imagine cost wise it would be cheaper as well. Notice that overruns cause worse disruption on the Northern, than a signal failure, except if its a recurring one at Kennington, or even worse Camden town.

[mandgc]

There are more difficulties in repairing the Deep Level tubes or the Sub Surface Tunnels where everything has to be taken to the site and taken away again 'on the day'.
On the Main Line or'open air' lines equipment, renewals, etc. can often be dumped or prepared nearby beforehand and discarded material dumped nearby to be cleared (if at all! ) later.

[Tomcakes]

ISTR a few years ago (probarbly coming on for 10) a large section of the Bank branch of the Northern was closed for a few months. Can remember the altered line maps on the 59TS ;D. Why not roll the works together - refurbrish all the stations on a short section in paralell, whilst working on the track at the same time. Rather than a lot of short possesions doing the different things.

[Deleted]

That makes sense. I remember the BBIP - Bank Branch Improvement Project, severe speed restrictions were eased around Angel and Bank. I can remember in 1998, original tiling being covered over at Bank, together with old advertisements behind cabinets, One I spotted was advertising some garments available at Harrods, dated Summer 1956!