Kings Cross Northern Line platforms, 1996

[Chris M]

At a Northern Line station I visited recently*, I saw the following on the line map:


What engineering work was taking place in the first half of 1996 that required the platforms to be closed?
Are there any older outdated engineering notices around?

*In order not to prejudice the upcoming quiz, I'm not posting details of my travels at the moment.

[Deleted]

Was KXSP originally a C&SLR island platform?

Edit: Edited for extremely bad use of English that would make Samuel Johnson turn in his grave!

[Deleted]

From memory, it was rebuilding work on the station, escalators spring to mind, but someone will confirm.

Haven't seen any older engineering work labels, but have seen Central Line ones still claiming you can go to Ongar during the peak periods.

I believe there is a gap in the PPP responsibility for these signs, while owned by the infraco's, they are treated as a part of TFL publicity. Platform signs often have a white label put over any offending items. Trackside signs need more effort and thus hang around longer.

[Tubeboy]

I think it was the escalators leading to the Northern platforms, that were being refurbished, which caused trains to non-stop.

I can't remember the Central line station, which until recently had Blake Hall on its platform route diagram.

[Deleted]

biolizard said:

Wasn't originally a C&SLR island platform, was it?

King's Cross was never an island platform.

[trc666]

You're thinking of Angel, which was an island until the early 1990s. Clapham Common still has a C&SLR style island platform.

[Deleted]

tubeboy said:

I think it was the escalators leading to the Northern platforms, that were being refurbished, which caused trains to non-stop.

I can't remember the Central line station, which until recently had Blake Hall on its platform route diagram.

Bond Street. I think the sign has made its way back to Acton though, given the refurbishment of the station.

[towerman]

Wasn't it when they converted the centre stairs to the Northern to an escalator?

[mandgc]

Kings Cross, Northern Line had lifts down to Platform Level from when it opened in 1907 and the platforms were suffficiently far apart to accomodate them.
The Lifts were replaced by escalators from the Piccadilly Line level when the Tube and Met. Line stations were modernised in 1939.

[ongarparknride]

I vaguely recollect a mention of a defunct island platform at King's Cross on my Video 125 DEV's narrative. And more clearly a mention of a siding that was installed to cart away muck from new work to impliment post Fire Disaster remedies, that I don't think were carried out. Just from memory of the video, visible as one departed westbound? And at some times boarded up?

I remember Angel in its island layout from the mid 1950's, as it was convenient for visiting the Sadler's Wells Opera. The 38A (Loughton-Victoria RT's) were another way to get to it.
I was sh*t scared at the narrow width of the platform.

cheers,

[mandgc]

"Defunct Island Platform, Kings Cross" (Reply # 9)

Does this not refer to the constructed, but not brought into use, Bay Track between the two existing Sub Surface Met. Line Platforms ?

[Deleted]

Yes, it does. The siding is still in place too.

[Chris W]

awkward42 said:

Are there any older outdated engineering notices around?

A couple of months ago or so, I was on a Northen Line car with a pre-Jubilee line extension central London map still showing - I suspect that the later maps may have been ripped out.

[Chris M]

I did see a pre-JLE map recently, but that was on a Silverlink NLL train, and so I think they can be forgiven for not keeping bang up to date with the latest LU changes when I don't think their network has changed.

[Geoffram]

Out of interest, very few other stations built in that period had lifts that went right down to platform level (you can still see the grills on the Northern line platforms). Most lifts went ot an intermediate level with stairs down to the platforms. Does anyone know why this was done at King's Cross?

[abe]

Lifts typically didn't go to platform level because the platform tunnels were closely spaced (just room for the staircase). If the platforms were further apart then more land was required, needing a greater wayleave (all shown on the Parliamentary plans, as a dotted 'limit of deviation' line). At King's Cross the platforms might be under existing railway land and therefore the C&SLR might have come to an arrangement with the GNR. Just a guess though...

[CSLR]

abe said:

Lifts typically didn't go to platform level because the platform tunnels were closely spaced (just room for the staircase).

Not quite true. This of course depends on the layout of the station.
In almost all of the original C&SLR stations there were no staircases down to the platforms. Instead, the running tunnels were at slightly different levels and the lifts descended to an intermediate point from which inclined passages led up or down to the platforms without any need for stairs. The exception was the Borough where the layout of the lower level subways was hurriedly modified to allow for electrical operation experiments (I have covered this in an earlier thread).
Because station buildings and lift shafts are invariably to the side of the tunnels, there is no reason whatsoever why the C&SLR inclined-passage method could not have been used at almost every tube station where there was no space to bring the lifts down between the tunnels. The only negative aspect is that, in building stations this way, it is not possible to have the running tunnels on exactly the same level, which makes it difficult to install cross-passages.
For station management reasons, the choice of constructing adjacent deep level station tunnels at the same level is one that is favoured where practical. However, when you place both station tunnels at the same elevation, there is little choice but to stop the lifts at a higher level and then bring the access passages across the top and down by a staircase to platform level.

[Deleted]

Unless your right-of-way is wide enough to allow the tunnels to be far enough apart to bring the lifts direct to platform level.

The Piccadilly Line has three examples of this: Earl's Court, York Road and Caledonian Road.

[CSLR]

theonekea said:

Unless your right-of-way is wide enough to allow the tunnels to be far enough apart to bring the lifts direct to platform level.

Oh yes. It can also work at some stations where trains terminate. The lifts at King William Street went straight down to the lower level and the arrival and departure platforms were linked by a walkway behind the hydraulic buffer. This was easily modified when the island platform was put in.

[stanmorek]

Reply #16: One assumes this was the intention from the outset. Given where there were constraints in the ground condition were there difficulties in building running tunnels so that the angle of inclination of the connecting passageways was not too great?

[mandgc]

Platform Level Lifts.

Perhaps the expected number of interchange passengers with luggage infuenced the siting of the lifts at Kings Cross, CSLR

[compsci]

Has anyone else seen the cross section showing the new underground passages in relation to the new northern ticket hall? I think it may be on one of the leaflets in the rack in the passage to KX mainline. Assuming that it is vaguely accurate, the new passages are going to be very long indeed, with each going to the opposite end to the existing escalator (the holes in the wall on the Piccadilly also indicate this. The passages to the lifts will be longer still.

If this turns out to be the case I can see the current situation of those in the know not following the signs to the H&C extending to nobody who has been there before going anywhere near the new ticket hall. The lifts will certainly meet the definition of "step free", but the large number of people who are just a bit unsteady on the feet and don't come with a set of wheels (both my Grandmothers coming into this category) aren't exactly going to be thrilled with the sight of a never ending tunnel.

[johnb]

professorfox said:

If this turns out to be the case I can see the current situation of those in the know not following the signs to the H&C extending to nobody who has been there before going anywhere near the new ticket hall. The lifts will certainly meet the definition of "step free", but the large number of people who are just a bit unsteady on the feet and don't come with a set of wheels (both my Grandmothers coming into this category) aren't exactly going to be thrilled with the sight of a never ending tunnel.

But surely they'll only be faced with a never-ending tunnel if they're right at the (front/back) of a (southbound/northbound) train? Assuming they're somewhere in the middle, they'll see the "pushchair/wheelchair way out" sign as they get off the train and follow that instead...

[compsci]

I was thinking more along the lines of these connecting tunnels appearing to rival Bankument for length. Anyone emerging from the lifts only to discover that you need to walk / wheel yourself / someone else along a seemingly endless (anyone who has done bankument from SSL to Central will know what I mean) tunnel will not be best pleased.