Bad Day on the Jubilee

[Deleted]

So, what was it this time at that most loved of signalling sites?

The Realtime board said that the signal failure was at Westminster, but given the horrendous problems experienced at Green Park Junction due to the rebar in the concrete causing track circuit issues, was the failure actually at the latter site?

[citysig]

From where I sat when the initial failure occurred, it was immediately before Westminster platform on the North/Westbound.

The failure did not just cause delays through signals remaining at danger. It caused Neasden's computer to pass incorrect information with regards to train numbers to our computer. So for quite some considerable time, the majority of trains were running on our system with incorrect numbers and, as service reformation was underway, quite a few of them ended up with wrong signals (for example, train 301 reversing at Wembley turns out to be 302 for Stanmore.)

For reasons I will not detail here, the process of being informed which train was which was not followed as advantageously as it could have been.

[connextrain]

Sounds like you britts have a public transport crisis.
Is this normall?

[Chris M]

connextrain said:

Sounds like you britts have a public transport crisis.
Is this normall?

Yes. It is the result of a few decades of chronic underinvestment (and a complete lack of investment in some cases).

[mandgc]

"Britt's Public Transport Crisis"

Melbourne has enough of its own crisis' as well !

[citysig]

mandgc said:

"Britt's Public Transport Crisis"

Melbourne has enough of its own crisis' as well !

It is much appreciated that you add that. Whilst Britain is still partly suffering from a lack of investment (and also suffering to a certain extent from those who have invested) it is nice to point out that we are not the only country with railways and by no means the only one to suffer problems.

Quite often when the odd story of another country's failures leaks out, it has warmed my heart to know that we are not alone, and that some of the more smug ones allow the egg to stick to their faces much better than we do.

[mandgc]

Melbourne is suffering from a forthcoming State Government Election and one newspaper (Herald Sun ) and the Government Opposition seems to be trying to dig up any "failings" of Connex or the State Transport Minister. The Labour Government appears to be responsible for all the fools who get themselves hurt by stopping their cars on the Level Crossings when the Barriers are down. No doubt Connex have taken into consideration the thousand of dollars due for the late running of trains,etc. in consideration of their profit margins.

All Railway systems have some delays from time to time, often caused by the users themselves, even London and New York!

[Deleted]

Well Connex made a hash at running a few Train Operating Companies here, same thing in Belgium, they took over a small regional operator in a hostile takeover, next day 3,300 staff walked out in protest... The company decided the operator was not a commerical venture and returned it to the previous operator...

Uup The Rebels! ;D

[mandgc]

I know Connex have a bad name in the transport World but do the people running Melbourne trains realy have much in common with other Connex operators ( apart from having to keep Costs down ! ) ?

I'm not saying Melbourne's trains are wonderful but do they have fewer problems than other RT Systems ?

[Deleted]

Well, in dear hot Kuala Lumpur, we have this automated LRT line (sth like the Vancouver SkyTrain, see my sig) that is over-capacity, has faulty aircon, breaks down at the most crucial times of service, has broken ticket machines and unmanned manual gates. Anything worse?

[Ben]

The Springfield Monorail that was built in The Simpsons...

[Deleted]

I meant anything worse in real life

[Deleted]

Thanksfully where I'm now living in Brisbane, the rail system is as far as I know still government owned, is receiving lots of investment, and runs on time!

[pakenhamtrain]

Thanksfully where I'm now living in Brisbane, the rail system is as far as I know still government owned, is receiving lots of investement, and runs on time!

Yes you are right Stephenk. A QR bloke at the Workshops said QR were the last government dirictly operated rail company in AUS(or to the words like that.)

[mandgc]

Brisbane- "Runs on Time" (Reply # 12 )

Don't you have stupid fools who stop on the Level Crossings or run across behind an arriving train only to be hit by one the other way ??

[Deleted]

Well at least it seems to beat Sydney...

[ttran]

I must say this thread has gone off topic. Almost turned into a Railpage discussion.

Britain's railways are definitely experiencing less (if any) of a crisis than Australia's are. At least Britain has visionaries still endeavouring to further its systems, rather than just leaving it to the government at an election time to promise one new line in a decade or so, as experienced in Sydney...

[ongarparknride]

TTran: "At least Britain has visionaries still endeavoring to further its systems...."

Visionaries are just that. A Public Transport Policy needs to be POSITIVELY SUPPORTED AND PROMOTED by the Government.

To set aside party politics, I'd agree in certain aspects I personally regard/regarded as CRITICAL, Margaret Thatcher's Government "ruined" the UK.

That, however, does not excuse Tony Blair's "New Labour" Government for the last Ten Years, not just continuing Thatcher's mistakes but yet adding and exacerbating to them.

Women are used to Labour of a "mere" nine months...

"New" Labour has extended it to Ten Years. And still running

Looks like the reward for ten years of doing bu**er all is to retire on one's pension as a former deputy Prime Minister, and that should fund the necessary prevailing cost of fuel to keep two Jaguars on the road. So the rich get richer, and those who DEPEND on a car for daily work, food, kids' education, shopping etc. get poorer.

I have recently spent a bit of time on line studying in depth the former Midland & Great Northern Joint Railway, including 1930's etc. published timetables. This shows under the pre-nationalized system, some quite remarkable actual train services given the era.
Or rather, Lack Of. That was under a private system, designed to provide profit for the Shareholders - hence continuing grand incomes for the Directors of the relevant then "TOC".

In case this rather verbose post does not connect to your OP it addresses: ("At least Britain has visionaries still endeavoring to further its systems....") my point is being a Visionary is worthless.

One needs to be a Visionary, with a cheque book.

Being a traditional conservative, with a small "c", there is nothing more I would support than re-nationalisation and a PROPER national public transport policy.

If just a fraction of the wasted money into creating tiers, management, administration etc. was ploughed back into getting SOLE RESPONSIBLE AGENCIES to carry out Government Policies re: the NHS, Education and Public Transport, we might then just start to be able to similarly tackle our underlying and other essential services and utilities such as heat, light and power, water, our Police forces, and perhaps a few others.

Including re-establishing an internationally competitive design and manufacturing industry.

"Man cannot survive by providing service industries alone."

Service industries do not provide ESSENTIALS like food, fuel, clothing, and accommodation.

Until we have self-sufficiency assurance on the essentials of human existence, most anything else is - on the accepted traditional accountancy basis of "marginal cost" - a Luxury.

Try selling that concept to the UK electorate. It is sooooo much easier to distract us with threats and more taxes on "global warming" and the need to defend against Terrorism etc.

As to "running a railway", there are further Social Implications. Like the increasing dis-respect for any authority and general "yobbishness" and belligerent consumer response to the Staff on our railways. Surely not caused by formerly decent citizens being faced with deteriorating travel conditions at comparatively much increased costs out of their total family income?

If so, then that is down to the Government, and NOT the actual staff who almost "devote" their working lives helping make LU and our other National Rail services as efficient and user-friendly as they are capable of?

I'd support a policy of Zero-Tolerance to any public transport employee being subjected to any sort of offence, BUT I suggest they get confronted solely because there is no other remedy for A. N. Other who - equally reasonably - feels they have been messed around, treated badly, or been over-charged and under-delivered on what they paid valuable money for depending on receiving Good Service in return.

To conclude on the "visionary" aspect you refer to in your OP.... I'm an "armchair modeller and enthusiast" by personal circumstances, but if I could make ONE big point. If the UK was so visionary, how come the French have their end of the Channel Tunnel all sorted? Compared with us some 10 years'ish since it opened, let alone was given permission to proceed?

I bet at least on your train stations you can buy a beer and enjoy a cigarette whilst you are waiting.....

How Ironic. Perhaps you have been overcome with the "Nanny State", but despite being based on - ahem - "non-voluntary" emigrants from the UK, my impressions are you are living better than we are under the "respectable" (allegedly) Establishment here in England.

Thanks for my rant re: your OP, TTran, and thanks to anyone else ploughing through this and reaching the end. ;D

Just IMHO and "food for thought"......


Cheers,
OngarParkNRide

[towerman]

Used to drink with a guy whose politics were somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun,he always said the three things you should never let private business anywhere near were transport,NHS & the Post Office.

[tubeprune]

The trouble is that only 8% of land journeys in Britain are made by rail. The rest are by road. If you are someone looking for votes, where will you spend the money for transport?

Now, if you were to persuade 1% of road users to travel by rail, you would get a 12% increase in rail traffic. Many routes in the country couldn't cope with it.

[ongarparknride]

Towerman, you didn't add a smilie so I'll be the straight man and take your post at face value. I agree with your guy. I'd bore your pants off justifying why. Put simply, I hope we are not considering privatising our Armed Forces :-) I am not politically in favour of governments running monopoly businesses (nationalisation) BUT the primary duty of a government is to ensure peaceful and reasonable enjoyment of the necessities of its citizens. And some 20 years into a deregulated transport policy, it's all in ruins. Even the toll M6 is, I understand, trying to rent out all its spare tarmac to the RSPCA to use as retirement homes for hedgehogs and snails. :-)

Leading neatly to Tubeprune, Sir, yes of course the railways couldn't cope. But under current privatisations, do I understand correctly: Demand Rises. Apart from certain basic fares, the TOC's can put their prices up. Their track rental is broadly fixed; their rolling stock lease/rents are fixed; so they make extra profits that go to them and shareholders, and NOT A PENNY towards increasing capacity and long-term investment.

Indeed, any increase in capital expenditure in upgrading track, platform lengths, routes etc, AND new / further rolling stock orders, are all termed in 5 - 10 years or even longer, by which time the TOC franchises are starting to make them cautious of new investments etc. in case they lose their franchise? A gross simplicity, but in essence, correct?

You ironically state the essence of the problem - transport under virtually all the post WW2 governments has been left in the hands of someone looking for votes.

And that is why - although I dislike both the principle and practice - essential services such as fuel, energy, transport, the NHS and a reliable national Postal Service can only be put back into centralised government control and proper politically-independent funding, to ensure a long term commitment can be planned, financed and implimented.

So we can afford £26 billion or so over the next 30 years for new nuclear weapons?

Methinks with £1 billion pounds over the next 5 years, one could extend selected platform lengths by say two cars, obtain extra and further rolling stock, and provide more suitable stock to operated selected services to become more attractive to passengers' requirements. Like specific seat reservations, sacrificing a couple of bays of seats to provide "at-cost" drinks and snack dispensers, or whatever. Not to mention addressing how at the stroke of a pen, putting off some 30% of the total potential population who might like to enjoy smoking if undertaking a 4 hour or so train journey. And better provision for luggage handling and trolleys etc. en route, and safe custody. Then rail/bus interchanges and connections. I read here an absolutely horrifying "fact" a couple of weeks ago I'm not repeating - but whilst all that is allowed to continue, a lot of peeps will avoid our current rail services wherever possible and those who are forced to put up with the ever worstening conditions will no matter how nice they are in Real Life surely only have the station and train staff to vent their frustration and anger on?

Oh, MP's get free First Class travel on their expenses, don't they? And presumably chauffeured to and from their connecting stations?

OK, I'll just sit back now and watch the queue form up for you all to come back along the lines of: "What are you complaining about? That's Life. Learn to live with it."




Cheers,
(off to get into the queue at the trolley for my Melton Mowbray Pork Pie and tin of tepid Fizz.)

OngarParkNRide

[ttran]

Gee that was quite an in depth post, ongar.

What you need is more people like Sir Richard Branson. A vision, AND a cheque book.

As for the beer and ciggies comment, I won't even start.