Where do the trains come from, Daddy?

[ongarparknride]

A new series of "Monster Moves" starts on TV Channel Five on Mon 290107 at 2000 hrs. There are four episodes in the series. I don't know which episode is involved, but in one episode there will be coverage of dropping the 20 new stock cars from the road access on to the lift accessing stock movements from the line to the surface.

The current edition of the "Radio Times" is my source - pp 20-21.
A photograph appears on p21, suggesting the new stock was supplied with cab windscreen wipers - the offside of which did not have a self-parking facility.

I recollect the (former) Southern Railway modifications of ex-tube stock removed the cab windscreen wipers completely for the fairly basic reason in service the stock always operated totally underground!

So has the W&C paid for facilities on its stock it won't use in service, or does someone know something about a "maintenance holiday" on keeping the tunnels watertight?

I'm looking forward to the programme to VCR it to add to my personal railways library. Hope it might be of interest to others here.

cheers,
OngarParkNRide

[gavelex]

is it the 92ts or the old trains they are showing?

[ongarparknride]

The new stock 92TS.

cheers.

[Deleted]

Wipers on a completely underground line is not as daft as you might think, as there may still be a need to remove dust etc.

[Deleted]

and if someone throws pasta at the windscreen! a story I read somewhere... might be from the main site.

[Tubeboy]

Artery had a lasagne thrown at his window, as for the dust, it was closed recently due to excessive dust. Drivers couldn't see signal aspects.

[stanmorek]

There was once a leak in a Circle line brick tunnel between King's Cross and Farringdon that was so bad it was dubbed the "P-Way Shower"!

[Deleted]

Actually, when we get leaks on the District it can actually be quite useful for cleaning the windscreens! There are no window washers on the trains, so in summer the windows can get very dusty and hard to see through when the sun shines. Saves having to get a cup of water to throw at the front.

[stanmorek]

But you can't really tell where the seepage is from afterall it could be leaking from a foul water sewer! Samples are taken for lab analysis of chemical composition.

On a serious note even though seepages are not an immediate sign of structural problems in a tunnel it does cause a problem by clogging up ballast with fines. The ballast becomes congealed and is hard as concrete no longer having any give. Unless pumped ,water in tunnels has nowhere to go as the 6 foot drain is only a carrier drain. This can cause track circuits to short, shortens life of track components and affects ride quality.

[Tom]

ongarparknride said:

I recollect the (former) Southern Railway modifications of ex-tube stock removed the cab windscreen wipers completely for the fairly basic reason in service the stock always operated totally underground!

So has the W&C paid for facilities on its stock it won't use in service, or does someone know something about a "maintenance holiday" on keeping the tunnels watertight?

Not quite - it's more simple. The W&C is getting a train wash.

[ongarparknride]

Hi again Guys, and thanks for your input.

I'm absolutely certain I read somewhere cab wipers were omitted from the previous stock on conversion - just wish I could remember where - but take your points re: dust etc. and associated need for both cab wipers and washers.

Re: Tom's reply #9 above, I take the post in good faith and literally. (No offence intended!)

Errrr, so the 20 cars cost £x million, and a train washer costs £y thousands, and the train washer hasn't yet been installed???

And how long has the current stock been running?

And where the heck are they putting it? From my long-ago learned knowledge, the Waterloo depot is packed tighter than a caseful of tinned sardines that have been through a waste compressor, and a car wash machine requires a square drive-through section with additional clearances for the machinery, as opposed to circular tunnel.

Methinks perchance you might be extracting the urine, Tom? :-)

cheers,

[Chris M]

I've only seen the depot from the end of the platform at Waterloo, but from what I've seen it appears to be of the squarer cut-and-cover construction rather than circular bored tunnels.
Also train washes on the surface appear to be designed on the principal of fixed brushes and movement of the train through them rather than moving bushes. This is presumably possible because a car wash needs to be able to take everything from a mini to a large 4x4, whereas the dimensions of trains are far less significant. Where all the trains will be of one stock (as they obviously will here) the differences will be limited to the tollerences in the manufacturing process, which I suspect are of the order of around a millimetre or less.

[ongarparknride]

Thanks Chris, I hope my smilie indicated I was not being offensive in any way :-)

My depot VCR's (Stonebridge Park comes to mind) show a static Wash Structure with the train moving through, requiring end-through-end clearance for the object train. So I agree with you on the principal of fixed brushes.

My point is of interest in whether a car wash has actually been planned or installed in the "drain", and if so where it has physically been located, plus how a train is passed through it (as per surface practice) in view of the storage and stabling siding restrictions at the Waterloo depot. So it's actually a serious enquiry, and albeit worded light-heartedly, I'm not in any way intending any offence. The depot construction may be adequate for clearance, but as a train can't pass "through" the washer it has to go through in, then out, in which case available clearance would still be restricted by the tight pointwork at the entry into the sidings and clearance, so without quite a lot of bucket and spade work I'm intrigued how a washer could be fitted in anywhere!

I guess for a long time the lads down there relied on a bottle of Fairy Liquid, (or Tesco's Value washing up liquid which at 13p a bottle would have kept the operating overheads even lower) a bucket of hot water, and a brush and a squeegee both mounted on extension handles - if that. Backed up by drivers' wives occasionally having very dirty pocket handkerchiefs to wash.

What else arising is interest in cab wipers being provided on stock without window wash pumps, nor reservoirs containing anti-freeze cleaning water..... retrospectively if necessary.

It also kicks off interest in the de-icing "troughs" incorporated in surface tube & Cut&Cover stock for their motor bogie pick-up shoes. These I believe where on the lines of a roller wheel that the shoe contacted, like a roller postage stamp licking machine principle, that presumably needed regular filling and in real life made any difference for a very short distance after the train passed where they were fitted. Hence shorting out the conductor rails to de-ice through their internal resistance at a lower current prior to trains actually running on frosty mornings?

cheers,

[Deleted]

ongarparknride said:

A new series of "Monster Moves" starts on TV Channel Five on Mon 290107 at 2000 hrs. There are four episodes in the series. I don't know which episode is involved, but in one episode there will be coverage of dropping the 20 new stock cars from the road access on to the lift accessing stock movements from the line to the surface.

I watched this last night with great interest. Is that hole in the road now the prefered position for stock access to the W&C Line.

I thought they were lowering the stock directly into the depot not onto a lift.

Forgive me for being behind the times but what happened to the old lift at Waterloo. Did it get built on for the channel tunnel platforms.

[Deleted]

The train wash will be situated in one of the sidings.

The hole in the road, is the only method of stock access to the W&C line. The trains are lowered by crane into one of the depot sidings. The old lift and track spur was removed for the Chunnel platforms.

[Tom]

ongarparknride said:

Re: Tom's reply #9 above, I take the post in good faith and literally. (No offence intended!)

Errrr, so the 20 cars cost £x million, and a train washer costs £y thousands, and the train washer hasn't yet been installed???

And how long has the current stock been running?

There is a trainw ash currently, but it requires the trains to be split to enable washing. The new one is going to be positioned so that splitting the trains will nto be needed.

And where the heck are they putting it? From my long-ago learned knowledge, the Waterloo depot is packed tighter than a caseful of tinned sardines that have been through a waste compressor, and a car wash machine requires a square drive-through section with additional clearances for the machinery, as opposed to circular tunnel.

Methinks perchance you might be extracting the urine, Tom? :-)

It is tight, but somehow they're managing to put it in. I'm not extracting the urine - I have seen the (unapproved) signalling design for the enabling works.

[Deleted]

cabdarren said:

Forgive me for being behind the times but what happened to the old lift at Waterloo. Did it get built on for the channel tunnel platforms.

Yes it's now concreted in under the Eurostar platforms.