Drivers

[Chris M]

Currently I believe the W&C trains are driven by Central Line drivers, presumably because both lines use 1992 stock (although differently configured). Does this arrangement date from the introduction of the new stock or just from when LU took over the running of the line from BR?

Presumably before this it was operated by BR drivers? Was there a dedicated group who just drove on this line or did they also operate mainline services (presumably also from Waterloo)? I guess that whichever it was, it would have been the same pre-nationalisation?

[Deleted]

Current crew arrangements are guys from Leystonstone... Before the LU take over, I think it was Wimbledon drivers that were scheduled to do the honours...

[Tubeboy]

Prior to Central line drivers, it was operated by Bakerloo drivers.

[Deleted]

wasn't the theory, at that time, that the 72ts were going down the drain, and that was why they changed the management?

[Deleted]

There were going to be 72 Mk1 ts going down there, because the 92ts was going to be used to expanding the bretheren fleet... Unfortunately, the list of things needed to be done to the 72's meant it was just not cost effective to do the mod work... or at least thats what I have been given to understand... Plus I dinnae thing the regular pax would like being herded onto a train 20 years older than the current fleet...

[Chris M]

I thought that the reason that the 92s were not brought out the drain was that the City of London Corporation pointed out that they'd for them and that they'd really rather like them to stay where they are thank you very much. I don't think that they'd have been too keen to sell their stake in the train if they would be getting older ones to replace them.

[Deleted]

It was legal action from the City Corporation that would be a consequence as well as several thousand modifications that would have to be applied to the W&C 92ts.

[Deleted]

Are there people who drive the Drain exclusively? If so, is this the most boring job within LU? I can't imagine it being very popular.

[Tubeboy]

No, as already stated T/ops from Leytonstone cover the line, in addition to driving on the Central line.

[c5]

The resident Service Operators only stay on the W&C, the relief ones (if there are any!) come from the District.
The Service Managers/Controllers are still borrowed from another line though (I think, don't know what line it is now) and stay at their normal locations. It was the Central, then the Bakerloo.

Permanently working there may sound boring, but not many dead late, early or night shifts or Sundays!

[Deleted]

sweek said:

Are there people who drive the Drain exclusively? If so, is this the most boring job within LU? I can't imagine it being very popular.

I know there are some drivers who will stick to the W&C week in week out given the chance. Those that like it can swap their duties with those that don't.

[setttt]

c5 said:

The Service Managers/Controllers are still borrowed from another line though (I think, don't know what line it is now)

East London Line at the moment

[Deleted]

Also, the City Corporation aparently paid towards the refurb of the stock... Not sure if they were ordered and paid for wholly by the then NSE sector or wether the City Corp funded them too...

[superteacher]

tubeboy said:

Prior to Central line drivers, it was operated by Bakerloo drivers.

The line has never been operated by Bakerloo drivers - ever since it was taken over by LUL in 1994, it has been operated by Central line drivers based at Leytonstone. At first it was managed by the Central line. Later, it was taken over by the Bakerloo, and is now managed as part of the East London Line. The W&C is unique in that its drivers come from a line separate from itself, and also separate from the line that manages it! Confusing, but it makes sense to keep using Leytonstone drivers because they are trained on the 92 stock, and it's the easiest and quickest Central line crew depot to get to from the W&C. Suppose that White Ciry is a close second - not sure if its drivers would be that keen though!

[Tubeboy]

I bow to your superior knowledge Superteacher.

[superteacher]

tubeboy said:

I bow to your superior knowledge Superteacher.

You're too kind! ;D ;D

[metman]

I guess East London Line drivers are trained on the Met main lines -as they have to drive train btw New Cross and Neasden?

[c5]

metman said:

I guess East London Line drivers are trained on the Met main lines -as they have to drive train btw New Cross and Neasden?

They are road trained to Harrow Siding

[Deleted]

adw said:

sweek said:

Are there people who drive the Drain exclusively? If so, is this the most boring job within LU? I can't imagine it being very popular.

I know there are some drivers who will stick to the W&C week in week out given the chance. Those that like it can swap their duties with those that don't.

When I was a driver at Leytonstone I used to like doing the W&C once every week or 2 as a change from the Central. It might sound boring, but actually one tunnel looks very much like another and on the W&C you don't have long stretches without getting out of the cab. As drivers step back in Waterloo depot all day, and at Bank as well in the peaks, you don't go long without seeing people either - at least to say hello.

Now I've worked in the signal cabin down there as well, when I was on the District reserve, and that really did bore the pants off me. At one point I was threatened with being left down there on a medium-term basis to cover the job and the thought filled me with dread! Far too boring!!! But relatively cushy.

[railtechnician]

They used to call the Bakerloo the toy railway but once LU took over the Drain surely it took the title.

The week before LU acquired the Drain I walked from Waterloo to Bank and back in half an hour and believe me there wasn't much down there but walking was far more interesting than taking the train. Apart from the old tunnel to the lift shaft which has been concreted up and the depot sidings the only real thing of interest is the pump room about halfway more or less between the two stations!

The signal cabin looked boring when I stuck my head in for a quick survey.


Brian

[Tom]

railtechnician said:

They used to call the Bakerloo the toy railway but once LU took over the Drain surely it took the title.

The week before LU acquired the Drain I walked from Waterloo to Bank and back in half an hour and believe me there wasn't much down there but walking was far more interesting than taking the train.

The signal cabin looked boring when I stuck my head in for a quick survey.

It took me 50 mins (20 there, 30 back) last summer. Mind you I wasn't feeling great at the time.

The cabin is only slightly less boring these days...

[railtechnician]

tom said:

railtechnician said:

They used to call the Bakerloo the toy railway but once LU took over the Drain surely it took the title.

The week before LU acquired the Drain I walked from Waterloo to Bank and back in half an hour and believe me there wasn't much down there but walking was far more interesting than taking the train.

The signal cabin looked boring when I stuck my head in for a quick survey.

It took me 50 mins (20 there, 30 back) last summer. Mind you I wasn't feeling great at the time.

The cabin is only slightly less boring these days...

Ah back then I was very used to walking tunnels. I had regularly walked from Embankment to Elephant & Castle and back 5 nights a week during the Bakerloo resignalling in the late 1980s, and commissioning longline CCTV on the Picc I used to regularly walk Hounslow West to Healthrow and I also surveyed the Victoria Line from Euston to Walthamstow and Northumberland Park.

Walking the W&C was under the control of a NR Contract PICOW as it was still NR at the time and he was in a hurry so we obliged him. It would've been different had there been anything to note but the pinch wires (NR equivalent of tunnel telephone) and the NR auto and telephone cable CCP in the pump room, I was undertaking a comms survey.

[Deleted]

In BR days it was Waterloo men that covered the work. Jobs 'down the Drain' were also described as 'down the Rat'ole' by the ex-Waterloo men that I have spoken to. Apparently, it made a change from going 'Raand the 'aases'!

[ruislip]

In BR days, did the train operators who worked the W&C also work elsewhere on the Southern Region?

[21146]

I believe the drivers did but the guards didn't

[Deleted]

The Drivers certainly did. Waterloo men were (are) a mercenary lot and would go anywhere if there was overtime in it! It was not unknown for a Driver to do W&C, Weymouth, Salisbury and Portsmouth in the same week.

[roythebus]

As an ex Waterloo main-line driver, the staffing arrangements were:

all link 2.3 and 4 drivers at Waterloo were (or should have been trained) on the W&C. for various reasons, not all were. there were 16 duties M-F, 4 Sats IIRC, plus Sat afternoon a number of drivers were booked on to walk the tunnel after trains stopped running and the juice was off. Most turns done 16 return trips.

This involved walking (in theory) from Waterloo to Bank and back inspecting the fire equipment and making sure the pump in the sump area worked, and testing the phones. In practice the tunnel walk was a tunnel run, seeing how quick we could get to the sump and back, then down the BRSA club for a pint!! Those were the days...

I believe the driver arrangements lasted until the LUL take-over. AFAIK Wimbledon men never worked the W&C. I worked on the line from about 1980 to 88. If ever you see the Dempsey and Makepiece show where a tube train is blown up (on the W&C), I was the driver on that train! a good 14 hour Sunday with lunch and evening meal thrown in at the film company's expense.

[Deleted]

Dec 12, 2008 8:46:22 GMT roythebus said:

As an ex Waterloo main-line driver, the staffing arrangements were:

all link 2.3 and 4 drivers at Waterloo were (or should have been trained) on the W&C. for various reasons, not all were. there were 16 duties M-F, 4 Sats IIRC, plus Sat afternoon a number of drivers were booked on to walk the tunnel after trains stopped running and the juice was off. Most turns done 16 return trips.

This involved walking (in theory) from Waterloo to Bank and back inspecting the fire equipment and making sure the pump in the sump area worked, and testing the phones. In practice the tunnel walk was a tunnel run, seeing how quick we could get to the sump and back, then down the BRSA club for a pint!! Those were the days...

I believe the driver arrangements lasted until the LUL take-over. AFAIK Wimbledon men never worked the W&C. I worked on the line from about 1980 to 88. If ever you see the Dempsey and Makepiece show where a tube train is blown up (on the W&C), I was the driver on that train! a good 14 hour Sunday with lunch and evening meal thrown in at the film company's expense.

I remember that episode, I think it was around 1985. I've never seen it since.

I always found the W&C crews in BR days, to be very friendly. I loved the old SR stock and would find any excuse to travel by the 'drain'.

[roythebus]

We had an industrial dispute in about 1983 after the management decided to save money by doing away with the tunnel "walk" (run) on Saturdays. This would have meant the loss of about 6 or 8 turns and of course the safety implications.

So, Waterloo ASLEF decided to close the W&C from 0730 to 0900 M-F until further notice. I was the 2nd driver to sign on on the first monday. the timekeeper and TCS asked me what I was going to do. "Obey the branch resolution" I replied. The TCS, being a good ASLEF man, told me to wait and see the guv'nor, who signed on at 0900. so I sat in the mess room till 0900 and saw the guv'nor, who told me if i wasn't going to work normally, I would be sent home without pay. He was told that I'd sat there from 0630 and must be paid for it, which I eventually was.

Others were sent home without pay for about 6 weeks. to get round this loss of pay, the drivers had a weekly whip-round, I forget how much. Drivers booked to work rest days downstairs would change for a duty upstairs, so the non-rest dat man would go downstairs, get sent home, and get an amount from the whip-rouind. The man upstairs would work his rest day as normal and get paid r/d time for it. The only cost to the drivers was whatever the whip-round was, say a tenner a week!! Cost to management was considerable.

The W&C was shut for 6-10 weeks, maybe more, I forget. but, the management kept 6 turns on the tunnel walk as a compromise. It was probably one of the most effective industrial disputes I ever took part in.

All the stock was immaculate when the line eventually reopened.

Shortly after that, "someone" tagged one of the motor cars "Into City" on the Bank end! All in the correct BR typeface too. Dunno who that was....

[Deleted]

Dec 12, 2008 8:46:22 GMT roythebus said:

If ever you see the Dempsey and Makepiece show where a tube train is blown up (on the W&C), I was the driver on that train! a good 14 hour Sunday with lunch and evening meal thrown in at the film company's expense.

I remember this episode well, despite only being 4 or 5 at the time!

A quick search of youtube and here it is sadly not in English though.