Deleted
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Clocks
Oct 15, 2006 17:41:19 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2006 17:41:19 GMT
Will either of the new stocks have clocks in the saloon?
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Deleted
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Oct 15, 2006 17:45:13 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2006 17:45:13 GMT
...Why? ;D
Sam
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Deleted
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Clocks
Oct 15, 2006 18:02:03 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2006 18:02:03 GMT
Because not everyone has a watch, wants to give up their seat to look for a handy DMI or headwall clock, break the rules of Underground travel by asking the time or risk getting their phone nicked by digging it out of their purse/pocket/jacket.
The Desiros have clocks and they are extremely useful.
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Deleted
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Oct 15, 2006 18:39:16 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2006 18:39:16 GMT
I've never been on a train with a clock in it!
The Cl360s (which are a form of Desiro, unless I am mistaken ... and I might well be) don't have clocks in them....
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prjb
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Oct 15, 2006 20:31:39 GMT
Post by prjb on Oct 15, 2006 20:31:39 GMT
No, but it's an interesting point to raise. The trains (09 and 'S') will have a master-clock which all the associated train bourne systems will run off. The problem with that is that it doesn't change for summer/winter, it runs on 'Zulu' time which is what the police /army use.
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Colin
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Oct 15, 2006 20:35:32 GMT
Post by Colin on Oct 15, 2006 20:35:32 GMT
Now that will be *cough* 'interesting' ;D ;D
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prjb
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Oct 15, 2006 20:42:49 GMT
Post by prjb on Oct 15, 2006 20:42:49 GMT
It's not a problem for the train, if you download (as an example) a section of CCTV footage it would date/time stamp it and state if it is Zulu +1. So from that point of view it's fine, but you couldn't use this for the passenger saloon as it would cause confusion. I had never heard of Zulu time until I joined this project!
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Deleted
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Oct 15, 2006 20:48:04 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2006 20:48:04 GMT
this page has all of the different time zones, military and civilian:
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Deleted
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Oct 15, 2006 20:59:46 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2006 20:59:46 GMT
No, but it's an interesting point to raise. The trains (09 and 'S') will have a master-clock which all the associated train bourne systems will run off. The problem with that is that it doesn't change for summer/winter, it runs on 'Zulu' time which is what the police /army use. Well, if that issue can be solved for the Desiros, it can probably be solved for the new stuff. Besides, it makes more sense to house any timezone-related stuff in a non-failsafe module such as a saloon clock - I doubt the train computer needs to care about what the timezone is.
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Deleted
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Oct 15, 2006 21:46:00 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2006 21:46:00 GMT
If clocks do get put in future stocks due to bringing it up in this thread, OneKEA will have left his mark on London Underground, a bit like Harry Beck ;D
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Clocks
Oct 15, 2006 21:50:21 GMT
Post by agoodcuppa on Oct 15, 2006 21:50:21 GMT
The problem with that is that it doesn't change for summer/winter, it runs on 'Zulu' time which is what the police /army use. Which is GMT/UTC by a different name.
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Deleted
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Oct 15, 2006 22:04:22 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2006 22:04:22 GMT
If clocks do get put in future stocks due to bringing it up in this thread, OneKEA will have left his mark on London Underground, a bit like Harry Beck ;D ROTFLMAO
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Phil
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Oct 15, 2006 22:09:05 GMT
Post by Phil on Oct 15, 2006 22:09:05 GMT
I doubt the train computer needs to care about what the timezone is. Have you missed the point here? If the land-based mainframe is running zulu/GMT, the trains must run to the same system to make sense of the downloads when logging incidents, failures etc.
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Clocks
Oct 15, 2006 22:10:51 GMT
Post by compsci on Oct 15, 2006 22:10:51 GMT
365s have a clock on the CIS display when not near enough to the next station to justify announcing it.
All new stock in New York cycles between the next station, the terminus and the time, unless the guard is bored and making it play every safety announcement in the book.
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Phil
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Clocks
Oct 15, 2006 22:11:38 GMT
Post by Phil on Oct 15, 2006 22:11:38 GMT
If clocks do get put in future stocks due to bringing it up in this thread, OneKEA will have left his mark on London Underground, a bit like Harry Beck ;D ROTFLMAO And if not, he'll still get the credit for the 'bing-bongs' pre-announcements (see Annunciator sounds thread!).
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Deleted
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Oct 15, 2006 23:01:11 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2006 23:01:11 GMT
I doubt the train computer needs to care about what the timezone is. Have you missed the point here? If the land-based mainframe is running zulu/GMT, the trains must run to the same system to make sense of the downloads when logging incidents, failures etc. No, I didn't miss the point. But AFAICT, the timezone is not particularly useful when timestamping data logs, especially since the changeovers between GMT and BST happen during a period when no trains are likely to be running (and thus logging) - and if the train computer doesn't care about the timezone, then the landside servers collecting and analyzing the data probably don't care either. Besides, it would be trivial to modify the logs during postprocessing after upload anyway, if it were absolutely required. But from my perspective it seems like a rather unnecessary minifeature. Who knows, maybe the Land of Hedgehogs might teach LU how to count beyond 24!* * - the Hedgehog Underground marks train times after 23:59 as a continuation of the 24hour clock, so a train stabling time of 25:07 is actually 02:07 the next day.
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Deleted
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Clocks
Oct 18, 2006 16:38:53 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2006 16:38:53 GMT
Clocks in the cab too would be nice !!
I never wear a watch ! If anyone sees me in the cab with my mobile phone out ..obviously it is purely because I am checking the time ;D
Station mirrors seem to be getting them upon refurbishment ... but in the train cab would be more useful.
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towerman
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Clocks
Oct 18, 2006 19:51:11 GMT
Post by towerman on Oct 18, 2006 19:51:11 GMT
They put clocks in the cabs on 72 Mk2's on refurbishment,they were all vandalised within 6 months.
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Deleted
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Oct 18, 2006 20:03:56 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2006 20:03:56 GMT
by drivers? how can you vandalise a clock. If it was intergrated into the TMS i doubt it would vandalised.
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towerman
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Oct 18, 2006 22:45:09 GMT
Post by towerman on Oct 18, 2006 22:45:09 GMT
No TMS on 72TS,it was over the top of the offside droplight a small LCD display.People tried to remove them possibly for use at home,when they couldn't do it or found they weren't compatible they just wrecked them.
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Deleted
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Oct 19, 2006 17:05:13 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2006 17:05:13 GMT
No TMS on 72TS,it was over the top of the offside droplight a small LCD display.People tried to remove them possibly for use at home,when they couldn't do it or found they weren't compatible they just wrecked them. When bright low energy lights were a bit of a novelty, some buses fitted with them in the driving cab, were systematically having them prized out and the bus cab ceiling damaged in the process. The company had to introduce a system of drivers reporting taking over any bus cab with one removed to identify or dter the culprets. There are small but significant number of drivers who engage in anti social behaviour in the cabs (such as smoking and putting union stickers up, scratching internal notices) but the management seem to not have any proper hand on dealing with such miscreants. None the less I don't see that as a reason for not properly equipping cabs to the same high standard to be expected of any other working office.
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prjb
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Clocks
Oct 20, 2006 23:24:15 GMT
Post by prjb on Oct 20, 2006 23:24:15 GMT
We are certainly not planning to downgrade the standards in driving cabs due to a few anti-social individuals. We are trying to ensure that any equipment that does go into the cab is robust and as ergonomically placed as possible.
It's not quite fair to say that management do not have a proper hand on dealing with this type of occurance. It is very difficult to catch and prove who is actually responsible. Drivers would bulk at the idea of cabs being fitted with CCTV (and rightly so), and to try and make regular checks on the entire fleet would be hugely man power intensive and would not necessarily yeild the desired result.
I can remember a case on the SSR where a driver was found to be responsible for scratching windscreens. Management were accused of entrapment for supplying the individual with a 'good' train and checking it after the individual had got off. In addition management were accused of wasting resources by carrying out such an operation, and also for carrying out the subsequent investigation. After the individual was disciplined the drivers threatened to go on strike too!
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Deleted
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Oct 21, 2006 0:06:59 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2006 0:06:59 GMT
I think we have a fundamental problem here. Drivers would, on the whole, like to see the idiot minority stopped but don't want to "grass up" a colleague. If every driver reported every time they took over a train that showed signs of a previous driver smoking or other bad behaviour then management would soon find the culprits. But then nobody is keen to see a fellow driver get in trouble, unless it's a serious safety issue.
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Deleted
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Clocks
Oct 21, 2006 0:10:05 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2006 0:10:05 GMT
Getting back to the original topic, I think clocks for passengers would be helpful because they would know how long they had actually been stopped rather than guessing, guesses usually being wild overestimates and leading to extra stress!
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Clocks
Oct 21, 2006 0:46:06 GMT
Post by c5 on Oct 21, 2006 0:46:06 GMT
Getting back to the original topic, I think clocks for passengers would be helpful because they would know how long they had actually been stopped rather than guessing, guesses usually being wild overestimates and leading to extra stress! You could have one that went faster on and good day and slower on a bad day
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Deleted
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Oct 21, 2006 15:33:30 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2006 15:33:30 GMT
I think we have a fundamental problem here. Drivers would, on the whole, like to see the idiot minority stopped but don't want to "grass up" a colleague. If every driver reported every time they took over a train that showed signs of a previous driver smoking or other bad behaviour then management would soon find the culprits. But then nobody is keen to see a fellow driver get in trouble, unless it's a serious safety issue. This is very true ! A mate of mine was annoyed at some Central Line driver keep smoking cigars in the cab and by placing them on cab surfaces was scortching the white plastic interiors he was gonna have a word with a Trauma Support guy to see if he would have words with the driver concerned There seems to be a notion that the union should deal with drivers engaging in these games, but the union reps don't seem to do anything ...and are obvioulsy responsible for plastering the cabs and other railway artifacts in stickers. That said I have told our DMT's that I will not be moving any train that has cigarette ash on the drivers consol and I'm not the only one fed up to the back teeth with it. A few cancellations may concentrate the minds !!! anyhow ....chill ....chill ..... lol
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Clocks
Oct 26, 2006 14:55:39 GMT
Post by Tomcakes on Oct 26, 2006 14:55:39 GMT
But then nobody is keen to see a fellow driver get in trouble, unless it's a serious safety issue. Is smoking not counted as a serious safety issue?
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Deleted
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Clocks
Oct 26, 2006 14:57:25 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2006 14:57:25 GMT
before the KX fire (1987?) there was smoking nearly everywhere on LU, so it wasn't then.
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Clocks
Oct 26, 2006 16:06:27 GMT
Post by Tomcakes on Oct 26, 2006 16:06:27 GMT
Indeed, but one would imagine what with the Fennell report...
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Oct 26, 2006 17:23:55 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2006 17:23:55 GMT
There are clocks fitted on the TMS on 95ts, and on 92ts, but they are usually +/-1 hour or more....
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