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Post by Tubeboy on Jul 28, 2008 0:32:47 GMT
Fellow staff [From the Bakerloo Charing X group] are currently on a 24 hour strike [1900-1859] in support of a colleague who was sacked after defending himself from a violent drunk. I looked at the Bakerloo service Manager page earlier on the LU Intranet, which stated that no problems were caused by the strike, and that the stations are adequately staffed. As to whether early turn staff on monday will turn up is unknown. This sacking is interesting, as the Police did not try and push any charges on the staff member, who is losing his career for sticking up for himself. Incidentally, the drunk was violent and abusive at the same station earlier in the day. Let us hope he is reinstated. Just to add Charing X group is Charing X, Lambeth North and Elephant and Castle. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7527779.stm |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 28, 2008 0:47:10 GMT
Shame the BBC chose to depict the other 'Elephant and Castle'.
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Post by happybunny on Jul 28, 2008 9:45:43 GMT
This is quite shocking I am surprised I haven't heard about it. Looking at LUL's live update page on the website, it looks like the stations are all open. It would be a great shame if other SA's SS's from around the combine have agreed to staff the stations.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2008 9:46:20 GMT
Blimey things are getting from bad to worse......I was always under the impression I could stand up for myself if I was in danger....and now it turns out I can't. OK for passengers to hit me though.....makes me really sick, hopefully LU managers will listen to the CHX group and do the sensible thing.........
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Post by Tubeboy on Jul 28, 2008 9:54:40 GMT
This is quite shocking I am surprised I haven't heard about it. Looking at LUL's live update page on the website, it looks like the stations are all open. It would be a great shame if other SA's SS's from around the combine have agreed to staff the stations. I think this issue is so important for us frontline staff. As to the stations been kept open, its typical of management to flout safety rules and have stations open with less than the minimum staffing levels. One on my group had a station open in the peak, and was "running" it himself.  |
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Post by happybunny on Jul 28, 2008 11:55:36 GMT
Im not saying that I would like any "incidents" to occur, however if something were to happen today and the DSM (or simliar who was manning the station with less than minimum staff) couldn't cope.. it might be a good thing !
They shouldn't be allowed to get away with this. Managers shouldn't agree, they should remember back to when they were a SS or CSA. It would be on there conscience if a unsafe situation occurred at the station, and because less-than-required staff were available, injury or even loss of life occurred!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2008 16:40:39 GMT
Agree with all of the above. Good luck and respect to the staff on that group who are supporting the strike.
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Post by Tomcakes on Jul 28, 2008 17:49:04 GMT
It would be very sad if someone was sacked for merely defending themselves; however, without knowing the full facts of the case, it is probably unwise to comment.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 28, 2008 19:59:50 GMT
Do we know for a fact these stations are under staffed during this action? It's one thing to voice your support for those taking action (and I'll add myself as a supporter although I don't personally know the full story), but to have a pop about under staffing when it may not be true needs careful thought IMHO.
Don't forget, it is only RMT members taking action - and the legal minimum for any station is supervisor +1 (something I certainly don't like); so the staff that are working don't neccessarily have much choice.
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Post by North End on Jul 29, 2008 3:22:36 GMT
Do we know for a fact these stations are under staffed during this action? It's one thing to voice your support for those taking action (and I'll add myself as a supporter although I don't personally know the full story), but to have a pop about under staffing when it may not be true needs careful thought IMHO. Don't forget, it is only RMT members taking action - and the legal minimum for any station is supervisor +1 (something I certainly don't like); so the staff that are working don't neccessarily have much choice. The minimum staffing at Sub Surface Stations varies according to the individual station and the time of day. So, a typical smaller station might be (real example): Mon-Fri start-0740/1900-close - 1xSS or DM, 1xSA Mon-Fri 0740-0800/1000-1600 - 1xSS or DM, 2xSA Mon-Fri 0800-1000/1600-1900 - 1xSS or DM, 3xSA Sat/Sun - 1xSS or DM, 1xSA. If the specified levels can't be provided, the station MUST close, WITH NO EXCEPTIONS. BRB Class 465. |
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Post by Colin on Jul 29, 2008 5:26:23 GMT
Minimum staffing levels don't vary during the traffic day - as I said, the legal minimum for any sub surface station is supervisor +1. There are locally agreed levels for each individual station, but LUL only has to comply with the legal minimum to keep a station open.
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 1, 2008 15:20:37 GMT
Well it turns out that the station was staffed during the strike....by managers, admin staff gaining temporary licences.....and revenue staff. If there is one grade that gets assaulted, its revenue, nice to see them supporting their colleagues.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2008 17:48:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2008 23:13:06 GMT
So what actually happened during the incident? Sounds like this affects all you front line staff and could blow up.
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 2, 2008 0:19:36 GMT
The "incident" refers to [If you read the link! ;D] that a member of staff on a picket line was punched and was left with a bloody nose and a split lip, whilst another was attacked with a traffic cone.
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Post by Colin on Aug 2, 2008 0:27:48 GMT
Well it turns out that the station was staffed during the strike....by managers, admin staff gaining temporary licences.....and revenue staff. If there is one grade that gets assaulted, its revenue, nice to see them supporting their colleagues. And that's ultimately why station staff will always be a weak force during industrial action unfortunately.... |
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 2, 2008 0:33:18 GMT
Well it turns out that the station was staffed during the strike....by managers, admin staff gaining temporary licences.....and revenue staff. If there is one grade that gets assaulted, its revenue, nice to see them supporting their colleagues. And that's ultimately why station staff will always be a weak force during industrial action unfortunately.... If revenue showed some solidarity, things MAY have been different. I heard a few Bakerloo T/ops also striked from Elephant. This issue affects all frontline staff, trains side as well, and it would have been nice for more T/ops to drop tools....as they did recently with the detrainment issue North of Queens Park. Management pull every trick in the book to keep stations open. Obviously T/ops have a lot more muscle, as no trains= total strike. I hope everyone who kept them Bakerloo stations open has their conscience pricked sooner or later. |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 2, 2008 7:10:05 GMT
If you are one of the admin staff and your boss tells you that you are covering for striking staff, what rights do you have to refuse? My guess is that you are probably covered if you are part of the union that is striking, but if you are a member of no or a different union, then I doubt there is much you can do, unfortunately?
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Post by c5 on Aug 2, 2008 9:27:30 GMT
If you are one of the admin staff and your boss tells you that you are covering for striking staff, what rights do you have to refuse? My guess is that you are probably covered if you are part of the union that is striking, but if you are a member of no or a different union, then I doubt there is much you can do, unfortunately? Considering that it is not their job and that they were not previously licenced then they could refuse. When the station staff strike took place last year I asked a member of station staff at a busy zone 1 station a simple question - they didn't know - I reckoned that they were bus station staff... This is quite shocking too www.workersliberty.org/blogs/tubeworker/2008/08/01/wot-no-olbiThe only grade that is safe is the Train Op. They claim to have managers and scabs from outside the grade trained up to operate signalling equipment. |
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 2, 2008 10:03:35 GMT
They could be refuse and then be told that it has become a requirement of the job.
If that site is correct (it's just as much propaganda as LU press releases are) then obviously the manager in question would be disciplined, particularly if the supervisor in question put in a complaint about him?
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Post by c5 on Aug 2, 2008 10:28:28 GMT
They could be refuse and then be told that it has become a requirement of the job. If it is not in your job description then you don't have to do it. If you don't hold the required licences, then you should not do it. |
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 2, 2008 10:53:07 GMT
However I'm sure there's a "get out clause" in their jd which says something like "you will do anything we want you to".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2008 11:01:53 GMT
Doing other people's work ultimately undermines all the grades - those doing the work and those whose work is being covered.
One day (maybe not too far away) these admin and duty manager grade staff could find their work covered by operational staff on light duties, station supervisors taking on DSMs work etc.
Or, especially with the Tory mayor and his new sidekick, they could find their jobs axed altogether. They won't be able to come crying to stations, signals and train grades for support when they spent our strike days pulling out all the stops to undermine us.
Operational grades are a lot more important to the functioning of the job than a few pen-pushers who would be the first out the door if the deputy mayor decided to "streamline" the business.
They'd do well to remember that.
* [Obviously i'm not referring to these grades as a whole - just the short-sighted people who don't know what solidarity means. There are plenty of decent folk in these grades who are let down by some of their less principled colleagues]
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2008 15:39:51 GMT
And that's ultimately why station staff will always be a weak force during industrial action unfortunately.... If revenue showed some solidarity, things MAY have been different. I heard a few Bakerloo T/ops also striked from Elephant. This issue affects all frontline staff, trains side as well, and it would have been nice for more T/ops to drop tools....as they did recently with the detrainment issue North of Queens Park. Management pull every trick in the book to keep stations open. Obviously T/ops have a lot more muscle, as no trains= total strike. I hope everyone who kept them Bakerloo stations open has their conscience pricked sooner or later. What is wrong with these people it baffles me. Revenue should know more than most what its like to be at risk and once again they have showed themselves screwing other members of staff (again) |
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Post by afarlie on Aug 3, 2008 17:01:49 GMT
Does anyone have an official LUL press office view on this matter?
Some of you are also reminded to read the LUL media policy.
That said, there are important issues raised here, and it's possible
(assuming people keep within journalistic guidelines) that it's a story
alterantive media sites like Wikinews could cover.
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Post by happybunny on Aug 3, 2008 17:57:32 GMT
I can't believe RCI staff covered. I mean lets face it, if LUL ever wanted to get rid of a load of RCI's, and they threatened strike action it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. It would be the RCI's who needed the station staff, and drivers to back them up ! They are one of few grades the company (from operation side) could survive and run perfectly without. So by scabbing they are certainly doing themselves no favours !
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 3, 2008 17:59:59 GMT
Does anyone have an official LUL press office view on this matter? Some of you are also reminded to read the LUL media policy. I dont care about their media policy. What about their policy regarding sacking someone for defending themselves? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2008 19:47:12 GMT
The "incident" refers to [If you read the link! ;D] that a member of staff on a picket line was punched and was left with a bloody nose and a split lip, whilst another was attacked with a traffic cone. I meant what did the guy do exactly to get sacked? Because there's a range of responses to someone assaulting you and the issue here seems to be that his was reasonable in the eyes of other staff and the BTP but not tfl managers. Contracts usually oblige you to work as the company directs you but I'd always say something if I felt unable to do a task for whatever reason. |
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 3, 2008 21:47:30 GMT
The full facts havent come out, but I would say, he had physical contact with the attacker of some sort, whether it be a punch or pushing him away...who knows. The fact the police did nothing shows it wasnt a violent response.
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Post by Colin on Aug 4, 2008 0:53:18 GMT
Some of you are also reminded to read the LUL media policy. That said, there are important issues raised here, and it's possible (assuming people keep within journalistic guidelines) that it's a story alterantive media sites like Wikinews could cover. **admin comment** If the forum staff felt there was an issue, we would have pulled the thread - whilst this thread my be treading a thin line, freedom of speech is allowed here! One other thing though folks - the use of the word "scab".......when used in the context of industrial relations, it's often intended to intimidate. I'm not saying that was the intention on this occasion, but please do think before hitting the post button  |
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