EN and OZ

[mrfs42]

Whitechapel and Hammersmith.

After a very pleasant evening discussing various aspects of Westinghouse frames (and dissecting the 1932 patent for ribbon train describers) in my local I'd like to pose the following question...........

It is (relatively) well known that the Whitechapel frame is part of the 'Northern Heights' frame ordered for Edgware - the 'change' (as it were) matches up with the number of levers that are at Hammersmith - which has no Westinghouse order number.

Would it be possible that the current lever frame at Hammersmith is the residue from Whitechapel and was originally intended for Edgware?

[Deleted]

"LONDON TRANSPORT RAILWAY SIGNALLING - Papers on the Life and Work of Robert Dell 1900-1992" (ISBN 0-9507416-5-5) has a photo on the front of the interior of Whitechapel (EN), showing both the 51-lever B frame (No.85) of 1907 in position, and the brand new 47-level N frame sitting on its rollers waiting to be rolled into place. The caption explicitly states that

an interesting rumour was that this frame was from No.198 which was originally ordered with 83 levers in 1938. This would have been for Edgware's new 1940 cabin, to control through running with Finchley and Bushey Heath. Accounts differ whether it was assembled or stored before being 'robbed' for Whitechapel. Certainly no new frame was ordered for Whitechapel.

Hammersmith (OZ) (http://www.anorakheaven.com/photos/hamm03.jpg) appears to have 35 lever spaces. 47+35 = 82. I suspect that your surmise about OZ is very likely true...

[Tom]

According to Mike Horne's list, the frame at Hammersmith was reported to be for somewhere else.

So, I suspect you might well be right.

[londonstuff]

I love the 'Skol' ashtray on the desk - how times have changed

[mrfs42]

I too, have a Skol ashtray - it lives with the collection of signalling instruments in the 'electric kitchen' (AI knows of where I speak).

It also bears saying that the theory is borne out by the end standards of the frame at OZ being non - standard.

[citysig]

Speaking as an ex-Hammersmith resident signalman and indeed ex-smoker but not back then...

For those interested, the SKOL ashtray was in fact part of a set of three distinctive ashtrays. One other was of a blue colour - but I cannot for the life of me recall what was written on it (it was also "adopted" from a public house, but wasn't Fosters - it too may have read SKOL.)

The third was a classic 1980s Fray Bentos Steak & Kidney pie tin, washed up and recycled (we were green even back then ;D) as an ashtray.

_{Sorry I couldn't add anything strictly technical to the thread, but then again, even this simple piece of signalling equipment is as much a part of history as the frame itself}

[londonstuff]

I very vaguely remember a transparent dark blue ashtray, possibly a funny shape, i.e. not round, possibly with white block-ish writing on it - are we talking about the same one do you think? I'm seriously digging around in 25-year-old memories here, from when I was about 3 - and not thought of since! Blast from the past or what!

[mrfs42]

In that case - as a cono-sewer of pub ashtrays I would respectfully suggest that it might be a 'FOSTERS' ashtray - which came in three/four variants square (rare), round (not as rare, but a shade more common, unless it was the quarter-hollowed with small and large rests for cigarettes and medium cigars) and the apochryphal ovoid (not seen - merely heard tell) with the 4 rests (two per arc) equidistant on the curved ends. ;D

Edit: Unless you are thinking of the non-transparent, but round 'Labatts Blue' which has single rests (suitable for most but not all of the largest diameter cigars) with a square 'land' in the middle - rests at the vertices of the 'land'?

[citysig]

To both the above posts, I sat here reading them going "Ooh maybe it was that one... Ahh no maybe it was that one. Erm, could also be that one."

Truth is, all of those description conjure up some sort of memory, but to be honest it could have been any of them. Maybe one or other of the designs was an ashtray at another cabin - I have some 20-year old pictures of both Edgware Road and Hammersmith kicking around in a box in the loft. They are not suitable / educational for this site but maybe I'll dig them out and have a squint to see if I can find any clues.