NR technician dropping in. Help!!

[paterson00]

I am a signalling technician on Network Rail and am feirly familier with most of the systems that we use and also the points too. I am aware that there are quite a few differences between what i am used to and London Underground signalling. Could anyone point out the differences? I ask as i am considering moving jobs to work upon London Underground as i live in kent.

Is there a Signalling Installation Handbook equivelent that is worked to. On Network Rail we have a train detection handbook to refer to and also we test under SMTH which im sure some of you must be familier with. What would be the equivelent on LUL.

If i really wanted to make the jump from one to the other who should i contact? I am currently working for Balfour Beatty working on points and plain line renewals and would like to have the comfort zone of doing the same job or something similar while i learn the ropes / systems. Who are the guys who do this there?

[mrfs42]

Does the SMTH mention the use of air mains [1] and/or M63 points?

[1] older EP installations, in particular?

[Deleted]

nope we dont have a handbook thats why we get paid more

there is a course what they call a conversion course its for NR employees to be trained on our equipment without the need to go through every course again to quailfy

there book should mention M63's as they are orignally a NR point machine not LUL but i know they have started to take them out and we are getting there refurbed hand me downs so to speak

on a brigter note i wish you luck paterson00 i also work for metrodebt sorry tfl now aint it and live in kent if you PM me i could give you a few numbers to ring to see if you can get a foot through the door

[Tom]

Aug 11, 2008 5:20:30 GMT @aetearlscourt said:

nope we dont have a handbook thats why we get paid more

The lack of a handbook is a problem as we get staff who have been on the 3BL course working to that standard, which is contrary to LUs engineering standards. And for some reason, despite 'Introduction to Engineering Standards' being taught at the beginning of the Technical Officer's course, very few T/O's I've worked with know anything about them or their contents!

(I'm fed up of quoting E7500 and it's sucessors to S&E!)

Some of the kit is similar, such as M63 and Clamplock points, but LU have tended to adopt kit for their own requirements so there are some subtle (and not so subtle) differences. I've got an old set of SMS's somewhere which do make reference to Chairlock points (all 6 ends on NR) and EP machines, so it may not be completely unfamiliar territory.

[paterson00]

Im sure that SMTH does cover 63's. I will check and get back to you.

[railtechnician]

Aug 15, 2008 17:36:37 GMT Tom said:

Aug 11, 2008 5:20:30 GMT @aetearlscourt said:

nope we dont have a handbook thats why we get paid more

The lack of a handbook is a problem as we get staff who have been on the 3BL course working to that standard, which is contrary to LUs engineering standards. And for some reason, despite 'Introduction to Engineering Standards' being taught at the beginning of the Technical Officer's course, very few T/O's I've worked with know anything about them or their contents!

(I'm fed up of quoting E7500 and it's sucessors to S&E!)

Some of the kit is similar, such as M63 and Clamplock points, but LU have tended to adopt kit for their own requirements so there are some subtle (and not so subtle) differences. I've got an old set of SMS's somewhere which do make reference to Chairlock points (all 6 ends on NR) and EP machines, so it may not be completely unfamiliar territory.

When I did the 'Tech2S' it was geared more to P-Way ops and signal failures. Quite honesty 'standards' per se were not taught then as they were more applicable to installation than maintenance. I don't know what is different these days since the course became modules but the man who runs the Tube Lines signal school, a former depot colleague of mine with an excellent signalling pedigree, was making lots of changes in terms of what was being taught. Having done my first two years on signal installation back in the 1970s and then spending time in comms installation, the training division for several years and comms installation again before transferring to Picc Line Engineering, 'standards' were something that I had always worked with. I worked on all lines and at many levels and interworked with other departments and disciplines. These days most TOs tend to start on a line and stay with it in a purely maintenance role. I don't think it helped that for a while at least there were two sets of standards i.e. the old standards that InfraCo line engineering was based upon and the new ones being pumped out from CED at LUL.
I would agree that some key standard principles were not emphasised in detail and quite often changes were signified by nothing more than a notice displayed for a short time and then removed to be forgotten about.
In the past there was always a problem with keeping up to date and little formal update training for many except for such things as Clamplocks etc. Much of my knowledge was gained from 'on the job' learning and lots of reading of prints and other drawings in the depot library and on site but many TOs did not seem motivated to do this unless it was to solve a failure.

AFAIK the only place outside LUL/InfraCos to get detailed info on the signalling circuitry is the IRSE although some publications have popped up on Ebay!

[Tom]

I agree that standards weren't a thing until recently, the clause of the standards I was referring to earlier were originally part of a DQN (DQN 17 or 32, I can't remember which as both have been absorbed into CED's standards).

As for installation standards - I doubt many of todays installers have even seen AS.35866! (Installation Standards, for the uninitiated.)

I know of some of the changes at the Tube Lines school - EJW (who taught me how to strap and function the easy way) has given me an invite to visit at some stage, as has one of his trainers.

[Deleted]

DQN 32 was limits of authroity now its in some other document e7**** something

[Tom]

E7500 I would guess (S&SC Safety Critical Processes). It's also in one of the new 1-19x Series Standards.

The DQN I'm thinking of must be DQN17 in that case.

[railtechnician]

Aug 16, 2008 21:12:30 GMT Tom said:

I agree that standards weren't a thing until recently, the clause of the standards I was referring to earlier were originally part of a DQN (DQN 17 or 32, I can't remember which as both have been absorbed into CED's standards).

As for installation standards - I doubt many of todays installers have even seen AS.35866! (Installation Standards, for the uninitiated.)

I know of some of the changes at the Tube Lines school - EJW (who taught me how to strap and function the easy way) has given me an invite to visit at some stage, as has one of his trainers.

I have known EJW since he was an apprentice in the 1980s. When it came to comms I was his mentor and for signalling he was mine, when you see him just say BJC says 'hello'!

[railtechnician]

Aug 18, 2008 18:00:03 GMT Tom said:

E7500 I would guess (S&SC Safety Critical Processes). It's also in one of the new 1-19x Series Standards.

The DQN I'm thinking of must be DQN17 in that case.

Yep DQN 32 was limits of authority and ISTR that DQN17 referred to adjustments but it was all superseeded by a document from CED as far as maintenaince was concerned and I never could remember the great string of alphanumerics that DQN32 etc became!
There were definitely some differences between installation and maintenance documents as I recall and that allowed some grey areas in terms of what could and could not be done by any given member of signalling staff at least for a while.