ATO

[programmes1]

I have been told that the extension runs automatically? is this true I did not think that ATO was yet commissioned only being tested at the Stanmore end.

[superteacher]

No, it's still manual driving throughout the Jubilee, although they have been testing trains in ATO mode, but only during engineering possesions.

[programmes1]

Thanks that's what I thought someone trying to lead me a stray.

[Deleted]

Aug 14, 2008 12:59:42 GMT superteacher said:

No, it's still manual driving throughout the Jubilee, although they have been testing trains in ATO mode, but only during engineering possesions.

Are you sure about that? I'm under the belief that they are testing ATP not ATO.

I don't think that ATO is anywhere near ready (not even at the test stage)

[superteacher]

Sept 2, 2008 19:58:18 GMT @peddoors said:

Aug 14, 2008 12:59:42 GMT superteacher said:

No, it's still manual driving throughout the Jubilee, although they have been testing trains in ATO mode, but only during engineering possesions.

Are you sure about that? I'm under the belief that they are testing ATP not ATO.

I don't think that ATO is anywhere near ready (not even at the test stage)

Maybe Towerman could verify this?

[towerman]

Far as I know none of the ATO kit is commissioned yet,if you see my posting about the Christmas shutdown on the Jubilee,this is to run test trains although whether it's 2 or 3 trains or a full blown test of the 30tph service we won't know till we see the EWSAs & engineering notices nearer the time.

[Deleted]

Sept 3, 2008 21:48:06 GMT towerman said:

Far as I know none of the ATO kit is commissioned yet,if you see my posting about the Christmas shutdown on the Jubilee,this is to run test trains although whether it's 2 or 3 trains or a full blown test of the 30tph service we won't know till we see the EWSAs & engineering notices nearer the time.

Its only the early stages of testing so 2 or 3 trains most likely and only on the east end. Definitely not a full service. Closure at the other end of the line is for installing more new kit.

[londonstuff]

Sorry all, what's the difference between ATO (presumably Automatic Train Operation, like on the Central?) and ATP?

[mrfs42]

One letter in the alphabet?

O = operation - how fast you can go.

P = protection - where you'll be stopped.

[Deleted]

Sept 29, 2008 22:23:20 GMT londonstuff said:

Sorry all, what's the difference between ATO (presumably Automatic Train Operation, like on the Central?) and ATP?

ATP (for the Jubilee) will be where the train op is driving based on in cab signalling indications provided by the central control system (and protected by the signalling)
ATO is where the train itself is driving based on instructions from the central control system.

The same movement authorities, max speeds etc. will be provided regardless of whether the train is in ATP or ATO. The only difference will be the reaction time (or tolerance) for the train op to respond to the in cab signalling.

[DrOne]

Can ATP allow a higher frequency than the existing system?

[Colin]

Not on it's own, no.

You need the ATO element as well because that will drive the train at limits a human wouldn't dare go - it's able to do this because of the information it gets from the ATP system.

The only way signalling (the ATP bit if you like) would make a difference on it's own is if it were 'moving block' (the gaps between the trains move with the trains) - AFAIK, the system being used on the Jubilee is the same as the current Central & Victoria line systems [and all other lines]: fixed block (signalling sections are fixed regardless).

[cetacean]

The Jubilee system is moving block Seltrac 40, the same as the DLR, and completely different from the Central Line and Victoria Line systems. In theory at least it should offer significant headway improvements over fixed block, if they can get it working.

And to get the definitions clear:

ATP is the system that transmits movement authority (red and green signals in fixed block systems; or clear distance ahead in moving block systems) to the train, and stops the train if the authority is exceeded. It can also do things like stopping the train if it exceeds speed limits.

ATO is the system that drives the train automatically - accelerating smoothly from stations and slowing down for the next one, plus slowing down for speed limits. You need ATP before you can have ATO, so that the ATO system knows when it needs to stop or slow down, and also to protect the train if the ATO goes haywire.

[d7666]

ITYF after full ATP then ATO there is possibly a further step where the traction packs on the trains are screwed open a bit more for enhanced acceleration and regenerative breaking. Timings come down hence TPH goes up.

--
Nick

[DrOne]

I see. Thanks for the clarification

[Chris M]

Feb 2, 2009 16:00:08 GMT d7666 said:

ITYF after full ATP then ATO there is possibly a further step where the traction packs on the trains are screwed open a bit more for enhanced acceleration and regenerative breaking. Timings come down hence TPH goes up.

--
Nick

Just in case anyone is unfamiliar with the acronyms here -
ITYF = I Think You'll Find
ATP = Automatic Train Protection
ATO = Automatic Train Operation
TPH = Trains Per Hour

[DrOne]

Thanks, was wondering about the ITYF