Westbourne Park interchange with NR (or BR as was)

[Deleted]

Many, many years ago there was an interchange with BR's western-region suburban traisn at Westbournb Park. I defiantely remember getting off an old DMU there back in the 1980s - I was probably the only person to do so.

Does anyone know when this was withdrawn? It struck me as odd that it was there in the first place, tbh, as I just couldn't see any reason why anyone would change trains there when Paddington was a mere 2 stops away.

[mrfs42]

I'm fairly sure that the signalling was all gone by about 1970 - and I'm thinking of the WR side of things here.

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2008 17:57:54 GMT mrfs42 said:

I'm fairly sure that the signalling was all gone by about 1970 - and I'm thinking of the WR side of things here.

I definately remember catching a train to Westbourne Park from Paddington. It was back in the days when the Travelcard only allowed use of a few British Rail services -one of which was the bizarre short hop from Paddington to Westbourne Park. I went and used it just for the sake of it! It would not have surprised me if I was the only person to have changed from BR to LU there all that week.

[Tubeboy]

Westbourne Park closed in 1992, like you say hardly anyone used it. Its nail in the coffin was the Heathrow Express, which necessitated the track layout to be remodellled in that area, as well as to allow for the electrification works too.

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2008 18:04:32 GMT Tubeboy said:

Westbourne Park closed in 1992, like you say hardly anyone used it. Its nail in the coffin was the Heathrow Express, which necessitated the track layout to be remodellled in that area, as well as to allow for the electrification works too.

Thanks. Surprised to see it was as late as 1992, really. As I say, I just can't see why there was an interchange there at all.

[cetacean]

The mainline platfomrs feature in the Let's Go To Birmingham! British Transport Film at about 0:52.

[Tubeboy]

This info is taken from JE Connor's excellent book "GWR disused stations in Greater London"

Indeed, it closed 16th March 1992. In 1904, rail motor surburban services terminated there to allow capacity at Paddington for the long distance services. A refreshment room was built many years after opening, due to increasing popularity. Due to the interchange with the H&C, many trains stopped there. Two island platforms were provided at its peak, with the afforementioned terminators terminating in platform 6, and then proceeded via a crossover.

I strongly suggest you get the book, its an excellent read.


Forgot to say, that by the end, it was only the half hourly Greenford trains that served the station. Thinking about it, why it was very little used at the end, superior frequency on the H&C, direct to the City, faster approach into Paddington compared to the DMU journey. At the time it was built, it was obviously advantageous to have the link with the H&C.....and daresay steal some of the custom.

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2008 18:18:15 GMT @cetacean said:

The mainline platfomrs feature in the Let's Go To Birmingham! British Transport Film at about 0:52.

Oh, lovely - steam passenger trains and lower quadrant semaphores!

[Oracle]

...also Class 37 (EE Type 2) I think it is, not a NBL Diesel-hydraulic. Oh, and Pressed Steel DMMU.

[Tubeboy]

Are the 37s not type 3's?

[Deleted]

Thanks for the interesting info - especially Tubeboy.

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2008 18:04:32 GMT Tubeboy said:

Westbourne Park closed in 1992, like you say hardly anyone used it. Its nail in the coffin was the Heathrow Express, which necessitated the track layout to be remodellled in that area, as well as to allow for the electrification works too.

It wasn't very well used (even on the last day, the enthusiasts outnumbered the ordinary travellers by quite a large margin), but the frequency of the trains stopping on the Network SouthEast side of may well have had something to do with that. There were objections to it's closure, though, and a condition of permitting it was that the cost of season tickets was to be protected for a number of years after - ie. NSE weren't allowed to factor in the cost of going into Paddington, then out again.

[Deleted]

Was it even served by a half-hourly service? I seem to remember it being one train per hour...

[ruislip]

Did the mainline trains serving Westbourne Park have any other common destinations (Ealing Broadway, Southall, Greenford, Hayes, West Drayton, etc)?

[Oracle]

Didn't they run to Greenford? I don't know if the Slough and Hayes - Paddingtons stopped there as well as they were 'all-stations' when I used to use them from Southall to Paddington in the late 1960s.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2008 17:59:12 GMT Oracle said:

Didn't they run to Greenford? I don't know if the Slough and Hayes - Paddingtons stopped there as well as they were 'all-stations' when I used to use them from Southall to Paddington in the late 1960s.

According to the BR passenger timetable from 1990,

The XX05 Paddington - Greenford Departures stopped at Westbourne Park. (The XX35 departure to Greenford didn't stop)

With extra Greenford services stopping in the peak hours.


The 2220 & 2320 To Maidenhead stopped as did the 2350 Slough train.

[Deleted]

Two advantage for people going from Greenford to the City were :
1. to have a shorter walk from one platform to the other at Westbourne Park than in Paddington;
2. to board a less crowded H&C train, and probably to find a seat before people from other WR lines which connect at Paddington.

[roythebus]

Remember at one time the DMU service ran along the Met tracks into Paddington suburban centre platforms. The DMUs were trip-cock fitted for this work. They joined the Met at Royal Oak. The centre platforms were also through platforms, a relic from the days when steam worked through to the goods depots in the city.

There was also a diamond crossing at the west end of Westbourne Park Met to allow goods trains to access what was Crimea Yard from the main goods yard. This was controlled by the signalbox on the Met platforms. They were X signals if I remember right.

The signalling on the Met between Royal Oak and Paddington also had an emergency control operated by a very basic system of a piece of metal laid between the rails on the adjacent BR siding. This put the signals to red if a BR wagon should happen to derail!

[Deleted]

Am I correct in saying that Royal Oak also had BR facilities, til about the same time as Westbourne Park?

[slugabed]

'Fraid not,Ltmuseumguy.....I can clearly remember the joint BR(W) and LT station at Westbourne Park well into the '90s,I believe the reason given for closure was trackworks preparatory to Heathrow electrification (ie mid '90s).
I can also clearly remember Royal Oak looking pretty much exactly as it does now,when Reading station was still called Reading (General) (ie early 70s).
Any WR facilities at Royal Oak must have been long gone by then,if they ever existed.

[Chris M]

I believe I have read somewhere that Royal Oak did originally have mainline platforms, but services calling there went a (very) short time after the Underground service started. I have a feeling that it may even have been before 1900 that what is now the H&C became the only operator.

[Deleted]

There should be some pictures in the Middleton Press book, Paddington to Slough. I have not looked at this one myself, but some reference to any stations existance at some point would undoubtedly be mentioned.

[roythebus]

The GWR may have had mainline platforms at royal Oak in the early 1900's, but in latter years the only WR trains that called there were the ones that terminated at Paddington Met. they certainly didn't stop there when I was on the H&C in 1973, but still used the met lines to Paddington.

[norbitonflyer]

Aug 19, 2008 18:08:50 GMT @tubeflight said:

I just can't see why there was an interchange there at all.

Don't forget that the H&C was originally a joint venture between the Met and GWR. Westbourne Park was simply the junction for the GWR's Hammersmith branch.

My recollection was in the late 70s/early 80s, all stations services to Slough included Westbourne Park. Note that the Greenford shuttle started at Ealing Bdy at that time.

[Deleted]

Also, where the H&C currently dives under the GW Main Line, this used to be a crossing on the level, akin to Newark. Not sure when that arrangement was abolished, but know it's mentioned in some media I have somewhere!

[slugabed]

The GW main line also used to cross the WLL on the level (tunnelling under the canal) until both lines got so busy that another solution was found.

[Deleted]

According to Wikipedia (yes, I know this should be taken with a pinch of salt!) the mainline service to Royal Oak ceased in 1871. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westbourne_Park_tube_station

[roythebus]

Feb 22, 2009 19:02:30 GMT slugabed said:

The GW main line also used to cross the WLL on the level (tunnelling under the canal) until both lines got so busy that another solution was found.

There are litho drawings of this in the West London Railway book by Middleton Press. There was IIRC an accident when two trains collided on the flat crossing.

Remember too the Hammersmith branch of the GWR was built to broad gauge,as was the top of the circle Line, hence the wide spacing between the tracks to Hammersmith and the wide tunnels on the Circle.

Royal Oak had BR (WR) signs until taken over by LT. I have a record poster somewhere for some unknown band from about 1969 taken at Royal Oak station, worth keeping for the railway rather than the musical interest.