Fastest approach

[Deleted]

I have been standing at West Ham EB and amazed at the speeds some trains hurtle over the bridge and then stop in the platform, also the same with EB approaching Barking. What station/s can you realistically approach the fastest (I know it sounds silly but it looks great)?

[Deleted]

alexh said:

What station/s can you realistically approach the fastest (I know it sounds silly but it looks great)?

Dagenham East WB, Barking EB, Acton Town WB (If you have a clear run in). What else?

[Colin]

Maximum line speed is 45mph on the District line - though that only applies (where signed on the line) Upminster to Bromley-By-Bow, East Putney to Wimbledon, Turnham Green to Richmond/Ealing Broadway - The sections in between are 35mph max (again, where signed). The longest sections (therefore, theoretically the fastest approach) are between Elm Park/Dagenham East, Barking/East Ham, Southfields/Wimbledon Park and Gunnersbury to Kew Gardens Westbound only (speed restriction Eastbound). On that basis, and considering the state of the track - I would say it's *possible* that Elm Park Eastbound, Southfields Eastbound, Wimbledon Park Westbound and Kew Gardens Westbound *could* be approached faster than the maximum line speed

Essentially though, a 'sensible' driver using service 3 (keeping service 4 in reserve in case it's needed!) will be doing 35mph max at the start of the platform.

[Deleted]

colin said:

Essentially though, a 'sensible' driver using service 3 (keeping service 4 in reserve in case it's needed!) will be doing 35mph max at the start of the platform.

Do many drivers use emergency and 'Dropped' emergency as part of normal braking? I know it is frowned upon but is the sort of thing I can imagine happening.

[Colin]

alexh said:

Do many drivers use emergency and 'Dropped' emergency as part of normal braking? I know it is frowned upon but is the sort of thing I can imagine happening.

That would be like using a handbrake to stop a car all the time!!

I'm aware it goes on so, and I stress this is my personal opinion - Any driver that constantly uses the deadman to stop a train at a station, is unproffesional in the extreme. There is no need for it, and if it is needed [at every station], you shouldn't be incharge of a passenger carrying train.

[Deleted]

Now, I'm a bit more adventurous that Colin because I usually start braking in Service 4 and then move up gradually to Service 1.

I never plan to use emergency to stop at stations, although I do occasionally misjudge and end up having to use it.

It's certainly possible to approach West Ham EB at 45mph, but at that speed you need to start braking before you reach the start of the platform! 35mph at the start of a platform sounds about right. The approach to West Ham EB is up a fairly steep gradient, which helps because even when the front of the train is in the platform most of the train is still going uphill.

Approaching Barking EB I might well hit 45 but I slow to about 35-40 to go over the points just before the bay road, otherwise it's rather rough. But the limit is 45mph.

[Deleted]

colin said:

Any driver that constantly uses the deadman to stop a train at a station, is unproffesional in the extreme. There is no need for it, and if it is needed, you shouldn't be incharge of a passenger carrying train.

Saying that I've been on the Circle and heard the emergency being applied at more or less every station before. The sound of the air is very noticable on a C. Mind you I've had a similar journey on the Bakerloo. Is this different to full blown 'dropping the handle'?

[Colin]

Putting the CTBC in emergency is not quite the same as letting the deadman go ('dropping the handle'). If you hear a burst of air as the train comes to a stand, then the deadman has operated. It could be that the train op has accidently let go of the CTBC in a position other than rheo1 & hold, which would operate the deadman, or he/she has used it to 'assist' the train to stop.

I travel on the Circle quite often on my way into work and have never experienced a train op doing it at every station - but if I did, quite frankly, I would consider that person incompetent to safely transport me - and would get off the train and board the next one along.

[Deleted]

Going off the subject a tad, does the driver (on a C stock etc.) have to physically hold the handle down to prevent the deadman from operating?
How does a driver in the 92, 95 and 96 stock operate it? Because (as far as im aware) its not a handle - is it touch sensitive??

[setttt]

sturdjos said:

Going off the subject a tad, does the driver (on a C stock etc.) have to physically hold the handle down to prevent the deadman from operating?

That's correct, except on the three types of stock you have mentioned, and also the 67T/S, which has a deadman 'button' instead (for use in manual mode).

sturdjos said:

How does a driver in the 92, 95 and 96 stock operate it? Because (as far as im aware) its not a handle - is it touch sensitive??

On those stocks, instead of holding the handle down, you turn it through 90 degrees and hold it in that position.

[Oracle]

What about going into tunnels? I have nearly brown-trousered in the past e.g. at Colindale I think it was going down at Warp Factor 7! Mind you I hate roller-coasters and being on the back of motorbikes I admit!

[CSLR]

For a roller-coaster ride, there really is nothing like Angel - Kings Cross. I really will have to get some of the transparencies of that stretch of tunnel transferred to digital and you will see what I mean.

[Christopher J]

oracle said:

What about going into tunnels? I have nearly brown-trousered in the past e.g. at Colindale I think it was going down at Warp Factor 7! Mind you I hate roller-coasters and being on the back of motorbikes I admit!

Going into the tunnel to Stratford at Leyton WB is just as bad.

cslr said:

For a roller-coaster ride, there really is nothing like Angel - Kings Cross. I really will have to get some of the transparencies of that stretch of tunnel transferred to digital and you will see what I mean.

I agree! I travelled over this part of the Northern yesterday, you can really feel the 'dips' in the track which give you that stomach rolling over sensation!

I can't remember off the top of my head why there's such sharp drops in the track along that section, however I will do some research to find out.

[CSLR]

christopherjolly said:

I can't remember off the top of my head why there's such sharp drops in the track along that section

They supposedly went through a lot of bad ground during the original construction and compressed air was used in places. I think that there is also a deliberate gradient in the vicinity of the old Weston Street signal box.
It is really bad though and was apparently even worse before reconstruction. To get a feel for it, stand at the rear of a car and look forward through the other cars in the direction of travel. You will then see just what the track is doing. It is unreal.

[Tubeboy]

Yes there is also a bit of a dip between Euston and Kings Cross on the s/b, not as much as the "alps" between Kings Cross and the Angel.

[Colin D]

I seem to remember going into Wanstead from Leytonstone being a very fast approach and the poor Guard half chocking from all the brake dust . Also a quite few more on the Cental

[towerman]

I know it's ATO but Victoria Line trains hit the SB platform at K/X at around 45mph.

[Deleted]

haha, I think admin Colin is a bit on the harsh side regarding other's driving techniques ;D

...and please don't be in front of me on my final trip of the day ;D

Personally I think these t/ops who pussy foot around at 30mph, have the thing at a crawl before it gets to a platform and then wait for the world and his wife to saunter from the street to get on their train, before creeping back up to 30mph shouldn't be driving them.
(comment motivated by my following such a train on my last trip yesterday, to the point i was on the verge of calling up the line controller to have a word. Cost me 6 mins from Earl's to Embankment. Also the previous night i was passenger with another driver who was so agitated by the preceding drivers dawdling, he slowed to, ahem, make a gesture, when passing the train now in Barking sidings !!)

My aim is, subject to speed limits, to move straight to parallel and remain there roughly to outer home, short coast to just past inner home and then apply service 3 with the aim of holding that until, just before mirrors, a touch of off and release or service 1 takes a jolt from the stop. sweet !

It does depend upon the train though, the brakes are very variable from train to train, and I'm quiet prepared to drop the handle momentarily ...or all the way ...if that's whats called for, other times, you've gotta ease off the brakes or it'll stop half way down. I'll always have one flag or the other up (though i don't recommend that for a new drivers first few months !)

Fastest approach is most definitely Dagenham East w/b (I've heard some trains will do 55mph there, presumably on some authorised test )
Others are Elm Park w/b, West Ham e/b and Mile End e/b
The ride upwards into West Ham and Mile End making later braking possible

As for the Victoria Line, Kings Cross s/b undeniably the fastest. If the ATO isn't braking by the points your not going to stop ! Anyone jumping stands little chance of the train stopping much before the mirrors even in emergency !

[marty]

aspect said:

...and please don't be in front of me on my final trip of the day

So you t/ops go a little bit faster at the end of yer shift...

I was once in a Berlin S-Bahn cab and it was around 1600, haeding end o. shift at Westkreuz, 4 stations away my friend started "operating" the train like a madman!

An experience I would not like to repeat...

[Tomcakes]

Should you have been in the cab? Did you confuse it for a shed?

[marty]

Well, at that point I was still working for a different company in Connection with the Berlin S-Bahn.

[marty]

(So I had a License allowing me to enter non-passenger-areas. Many other of my Colleagues chose a S-Bahn cab as a mor suitable way of getting home(late at night), than in the passenger area with 20 drunks getting back from the discos...)

And as my friend was (at that time) still working for the S-Bahn, I chose it as an option (I had a hi-vi vest with "Deutsche Bahn" on it anyway) that was usually quite nice...

Alright, getting too much off thread, so I´ll shut up.

[towerman]

Someone jumped once at K/X SB completely stove in the M door,shows how fast the train was going.