DLR help points

[21146]

Why is the DLR the only TFL rail mode that won't install help points on stations? Today at Limehouse c.1545 the next EB train was shown as "14 mins". 5 minutes later it was still showing "14". No staff, no information, and no means of getting any either.

A friend once used the red "alarm" intercom when the first train failed to arrive and was threatened with prosecution for doing so!

[Deleted]

I think DLR should have help points too, but I recognise that the alarm must take priority. I have had cause to use alarms on some DLR stations from time to time.

[Deleted]

Is it not the case that the stations on the DLR are said to be 'unmanned' (though there are staff in the station control room)?

[Chris M]

With the exception of underground stations (and possibly Canary Wharf) I think all DLR stations are regarded as unmanned, which means there does not have to be staff at the station - although of course there can be if the need arises.

[cetacean]

DLR stations don't have control rooms AFAIK - the majority of stations have no station staff, nor provision for them.

[Deleted]

Isn't there an "underground" DLR station - Cutty Sark?

The Croydon tram also doesn't (didn't) have help points. The control room staff would insert messages into the next train displays during a delay.

[upfast]

Oct 5, 2008 16:28:38 GMT @centralsimon said:

Isn't there an "underground" DLR station - Cutty Sark?

The Croydon tram also doesn't (didn't) have help points. The control room staff would insert messages into the next train displays during a delay.

Tramlink had/has Help Points for Emergencies only and they sometimes used them to broadcast information about delays using it's loudspeaker!

[Deleted]

Oct 5, 2008 16:33:50 GMT @upfast said:

Tramlink had/has Help Points for Emergencies only and they sometimes used them to broadcast information about delays using it's loudspeaker!

As long as the loudspeaker hadn't been pelted with stones.

[Chris M]

Oct 5, 2008 16:28:38 GMT @centralsimon said:

Isn't there an "underground" DLR station - Cutty Sark?

Yes, Cutty Sark, Bank and (I think) Island Gardens count as below ground stations for the purposes of the section 12 regulations. As I understand it, this means they must be staffed at all times the station is open, just like below ground Underground stations.

[railtechnician]

Sept 26, 2008 14:56:15 GMT @cetacean said:

DLR stations don't have control rooms AFAIK - the majority of stations have no station staff, nor provision for them.

You are confusing Control Room with Station Operations Room.

Help points, known as PHPs are what followed PAPs which came long after PIPs.

PIPs (Passenger Information Points) are what were installed originally on the Victoria Line as built, I recovered most of them circa 1990 although they had long been out of use.

PAPs (Passenger Assistance Points) was the Neumann system as fitted at Oxford Circus and eastern Central Line stations in the 1980s. These are the systems with the red emergency pull handles.

PHPs (Passenger help Points) are from Ascom and known commonly as 'Pillboxes' because they resemble pills. These systems have been fitted since the early 1990s.

In all cases the PIPs, PAPs and PHPs allow passengers to communicate with the Station Operations Room (SOR). On an unmanned station there is little need for an SOR.

There is a system on the H&C where the PHPs at six stations all communicate with the SOR at Ladbroke Grove. AFAIK it is the only such system on the network but of course things may have been updated since I retired.

The DLR has its Control Room at Poplar and presumably any PHPs would have to be arranged to communicate with the Information desk there as long as stations are to remain unstaffed.

SORs as we know them today began with the building of the Victoria Line, each station having an Ops Room manned by a 'Station Agent'. In those days the Station Agent monitored just 5 cameras at the average station, could make local PA announcements, could take passenger calls on the PIPs and also discharge the traction current in an emergency. These basic systems, though greatly enhanced and expanded, are still the basis of the local SORs throughout LUL. Sometimes SORs are/have been known as Station Control Points (SCPs) and at the southern end of the Northern Line, where they are prominently placed in the street level ticket hall, as Focal Points (FPs)

[Tubeboy]

Well I work in a "control room" at a station, but as Railtechnician rightly states, they are officially known as station operations room [SOR].

[thirstquensher]

Semantics aside, does anybody fancy having a go at answering the poster's question? Because I'd be interested to know too.

[21146]

I know that Newham Council have specifically asked the DLR why their policy is not compatable with LU and LO practice.

[railtechnician]

Oct 6, 2008 8:20:45 GMT Tubeboy said:

Well I work in a "control room" at a station, but as Railtechnician rightly states, they are officially known as station operations room [SOR].

I can't argue with that, indeed they have had other designations in the past too but as we know LT/LU has always had a habit of re-inventing everything every few years just as it used to rotate every department through various floors of various offices all around the city.

So having been retired now for three and a half years I fully expect everything I know about the system and particularly my own disciplines of comms (28 years) and signals (12 years) to be pretty much totally obsolete within the next year or two.