Jubilee slooooooooooooooooow at Baker Street

[Deleted]

Is there a reason why Jubilee line trains slow down to a crawl for quite a significant time (minutes, not seconds) before entering Baker Street southbound platform?
It bugs me, because I'm always late to work

[Deleted]

I think there is a significant gradient on the south at that point. Also, you have the link to the Bakerloo too!

[Tom]

Probably due to an inductor on signal A265 requiring speed to be reduced. Inductors are hopelessly unreliable so the trains are most likely having to stop at the signal before it can clear.

[North End]

Dec 25, 2008 19:31:53 GMT futurix said:

Is there a reason why Jubilee line trains slow down to a crawl for quite a significant time (minutes, not seconds) before entering Baker Street southbound platform?
It bugs me, because I'm always late to work

There's a sequence of speed-controlled signals on the approach to Baker Street s/b. I can't recall the exact setup, but I think you have 4 signals, the first of which has a 30mph inductor, then two which have timing sections, and the final one is approach cleared.

The reason for this layout is to do with the fast run from St. John's Wood combined with a downhill gradient - it maintains the integrity of the overlaps, but I think the reason why this was first done was to reduce the amount of dust in the platform area at Baker Street, caused by heavy braking in the days before trains had rheostatic brakes.

Needless to say, driving styles have changed over time, and most drivers will have their speed down to well below 30mph as a contingency, hence the crawl.

There was a similar setup at Highgate s/b which has recently been removed. There are also two speed-controlled signals between Highgate and Archway s/b, but I think these are more to do with the sharp curve approaching Archway.

[mrfs42]

Dec 25, 2008 20:37:25 GMT North End said:

Dec 25, 2008 19:31:53 GMT futurix said:

Is there a reason why Jubilee line trains slow down to a crawl for quite a significant time (minutes, not seconds) before entering Baker Street southbound platform?
It bugs me, because I'm always late to work

There's a sequence of speed-controlled signals on the approach to Baker Street s/b. I can't recall the exact setup, but I think you have 4 signals, the first of which has a 30mph inductor, then two which have timing sections, and the final one is approach cleared.

Yes; (from my notes) there's a 30 inductor on A2632, which is the fifth signal out from Baker Street, the control for that is almost up to the platforms. BM1 - the SB home for Baker Street is approach controlled.

Dec 25, 2008 20:37:25 GMT North End said:

There are also two speed-controlled signals between Highgate and Archway s/b, but I think these are more to do with the sharp curve approaching Archway.

That and the possiblility of hooning it down the 1 in 50 bank from Highgate.

[astock5000]

Dec 25, 2008 19:38:16 GMT @tubeoperator92 said:

Also, you have the link to the Bakerloo too!

But isn't that south of the station in that direction?

[mrfs42]

Dec 25, 2008 21:46:27 GMT astock5000 said:

Dec 25, 2008 19:38:16 GMT @tubeoperator92 said:

Also, you have the link to the Bakerloo too!

But isn't that south of the station in that direction?

Yes; but the lie of 3 points (the crossover to the Bakerloo) will be included in the approach selection [1] side of BM1s circuit - in other words the points will need to be detected as correctly set and locked (whichever way) before a train can enter the platform.

[1] which of the two approach routes through the interlocking are going to apply - 3 points normal - carry on south on the Jubilee or 3 points reverse go onto the Bakerloo.

[Deleted]

Wow! Thank you to everyone for the information!

I'm not very knowledgeable in this area, but an I right in my assumption that new signalling won't fix this?

[mrfs42]

Dec 25, 2008 22:30:54 GMT futurix said:

Wow! Thank you to everyone for the information!

I'm not very knowledgeable in this area, but an I right in my assumption that new signalling won't fix this?

No. I wouldn't assume that at all. Approach speeds into Baker Street SB will be far greatly improved and controlled in relation both to the layout and other trains. The new signalling will be more responsive.

[Deleted]

Cool! Good news then ;D
I hope I will still live in London by the time this will be done

[londonstuff]

Is the link between the Jubilee and the Bakerloo still active or are the points locked?

[towerman]

It's mainly used for getting engineers trains to & from the Bakerloo,also if any Bakerloo trains need to get to & from Acton Works.BTW the link the opposite way from Bakerloo to Jubilee is to the north of Baker St.

[DWS]

Dec 25, 2008 19:31:53 GMT futurix said:

Is there a reason why Jubilee line trains slow down to a crawl for quite a significant time (minutes, not seconds) before entering Baker Street southbound platform?
It bugs me, because I'm always late to work

If you are always late for work, you need to allow more time for your trip ;D

[Deleted]

It's easier to blame the Tube
Actually I never blame the Tube without a good reason. It is just that when I'm late, I always notice every single delay much more.

EDIT: Corrected worst mistake ever!

[DWS]

Dec 26, 2008 20:22:18 GMT futurix said:

It's easier to blame the Tube
Actually I never blame the Tube without a good reason. It is just that when I'm lame, I always notice every single delay much more.

You may not blame the Tube , but a lot of London's do blame the Tube for being late for work, when its not the Tube's fault.

[astock5000]

A lot of people complain about the tube, and then they complain about the engineering work that is needed so that they will have a better service.

[citysig]

Yes and then when they leave the tube, many of them complain about the weather, the traffic, the shop they've just been into, and then go on to work in an office/shop/other location where they then spend the day having complaints made (either directly or indirectly) about them.

[21146]

Dec 26, 2008 21:09:03 GMT astock5000 said:

A lot of people complain about the tube, and then they complain about the engineering work that is needed so that they will have a better service.

The trouble is, and this is something discussed numerous times before, is just what the definition of "better" is. The District Line central area engineering work has been going on for literally years but there is no obvious improvment in ride or journey time. Nor are there any extra reversing points to allow better service recovery. Ditto signal failures are no less common. As has also been said before, by the time it is all 'finished' (sic) no doubt it'll be time to start all over again, this time to accomodate the S Stock, and then next for the fabled SSL resignalling scheme before finally it's the turn of the track again. Call me cynical ("you are cynical - Ed" I know!) but how can the Berlin U-Bahn, which is a 2-track cut-and-cover railway, manage to maintain its infrastructure whilst also running all night on Thurs, Fri and Sat yet LU can't even contemplate a few hours' extension on one day of the week?

[astock5000]

Dec 27, 2008 17:12:58 GMT @21146 said:

Call me cynical ("you are cynical - Ed" I know!) but how can the Berlin U-Bahn, which is a 2-track cut-and-cover railway, manage to maintain its infrastructure whilst also running all night on Thurs, Fri and Sat yet LU can't even contemplate a few hours' extension on one day of the week?

And the New York Subway has a lot of services that run 24 hours a day.

[DWS]

Dec 27, 2008 17:31:12 GMT astock5000 said:

Dec 27, 2008 17:12:58 GMT @21146 said:

Call me cynical ("you are cynical - Ed" I know!) but how can the Berlin U-Bahn, which is a 2-track cut-and-cover railway, manage to maintain its infrastructure whilst also running all night on Thurs, Fri and Sat yet LU can't even contemplate a few hours' extension on one day of the week?

And the New York Subway has a lot of services that run 24 hours
a day.

Thats because most lines have 4 tracks, you just use 2 of them at the hours of night time when they have fewer trains running.

[astock5000]

The New York - New Jersey 'PATH' also runs through the night, and that system does not have 4 track sections, and they have single track tunnels.
In case you don't know much about it:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Authority_Trans-Hudson

[Ben]

If the tube ever did run a 24 hour service on a regular basis there would be no going back. With things as inflexible as they are, maybe a lot of high up people just don't want to take the risk of doing it and it all going terribly wrong.

A pity for Londoners.

[21146]

The reality I suspect is the 'will' of the different system managements. When LU wants to impliment something - e.g. OPO, Company Plan, Valuing Time/360; then a way is found.

[Deleted]

I was very surprised looking at the conditions of the 1979-89 nyc subway that they actually ran 24 hours!
maybe we should take some ideas from the MTA subway and try it on our system

[astock5000]

Dec 28, 2008 17:46:57 GMT @delboy200 said:

I was very surprised looking at the conditions of the 1979-89 nyc subway that they actually ran 24 hours!
maybe we should take some ideas from the MTA subway and try it on our system

As long as we don't try their ideas about the seats:
www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?64583

[Deleted]

As long as we don't try their ideas about the seats:
www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?64583


Beautiful

A non-padded S stock seating. ;D

[littlecog]

Dec 28, 2008 17:46:57 GMT @delboy200 said:

I was very surprised looking at the conditions of the 1979-89 nyc subway that they actually ran 24 hours!
maybe we should take some ideas from the MTA subway and try it on our system

I'd imagine this is what en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Kiley was for.

[Deleted]

Dec 25, 2008 19:31:53 GMT futurix said:

It bugs me, because I'm always late to work

Get an earlier train then. It's not rocket science!

[Deleted]

Jan 18, 2009 23:31:39 GMT @stephenk said:

Get an earlier train then. It's not rocket science!

Thank you for this unsolicited portion of wisdom

[littlecog]

Dec 27, 2008 17:12:58 GMT @21146 said:

The trouble is, and this is something discussed numerous times before, is just what the definition of "better" is. The District Line central area engineering work has been going on for literally years but there is no obvious improvment in ride or journey time.

If you're seriously arguing the former I'd have to politely disagree, on the basis of the eastbound sections between Westminster and Embankment which seemed as smooth as anything. (The possession I worked Saturday was doing the westbound between Westminster and St. James's Park.) The ride is strikingly better, as good as the Network Rail segment from Richmond to the junction before Chiswick Park. Even with exactly the same rolling stock.