Richmond this morning

[TMBA]

Great service this morning till a D stock got gapped leaving Richmond at about 1030 then it all goes belly up as all the Richmond service is sent to Parsons Green, totally screwing the Wimbledon service and making everything late again.

Why wasn't the Richmond service sent to Ealing instead? It makes more sense as the Wimbledon service has the locals and the main to contend with and the Ealing service has just the Tower Hill reverser's and people wouldn't have to change trains at Earls Court for Turnham Green and it makes it less confusing.

[marty]

My friend phoned me trying to get to Wimbleware - took ages!

(in Tottenham Court Rd where e started it said "District - Minor delays")

[Deleted]

tmba said:

Why wasn't the Richmond service sent to Ealing instead? It makes more sense as the Wimbledon service has the locals and the main to contend with and the Ealing service has just the Tower Hill reverser's and people wouldn't have to change trains at Earls Court for Turnham Green and it makes it less confusing.

Beceause you would soon block back going into Ealing. What they should have done is sent half the Richmonds to Parsons Green, and then the other half to Ealing, that way each reversing point would cope nicely.

[Deleted]

Around 11am, I saw the boards saying District line suspended to Richmond, good service on the rest of the line. I thought the District was coping well with that shutdown, perhaps that was just too optimistic.

Ealing Broadway has the spare platform capacity to be used for diverted Richmond trains, but Hanger Lane junction will prove problematic with additional District trains. Still, can't have thought it was that bad around that time of day when usually there are Picc and District trains across there every 10 mins

[Deleted]

soultrain said:

Ealing Broadway has the spare platform capacity to be used for diverted Richmond trains,

It would need two extra platforms to cope, because it uses two platforms at Richmond. With only one extra it would still soon block back.

[Dstock7080]

I believe the train involved was refurb train18 (7052+7125) which only returned from Derby last Tuesday.

Today was possibly it's first day in service!

[TMBA]

metapprentice said:

tmba said:

]

Because you would soon block back going into Ealing. What they should have done is sent half the Richmonds to Parsons Green, and then the other half to Ealing, that way each reversing point would cope nicely.

So why didn't they? I was the third train into Parsons Green sidings and it took me 20 mins to get from Earls Court to Parsons Green and 20 mins to get back to Earls Court.

Surely someone could have made the decision to run a couple of trains to Ealing but no they try to let it run itself out instead.

To top it off the Controller was calling trains up on the west at Parsons Green to find out what number they were

[Deleted]

tmba said:

So why didn't they? I was the third train into Parsons Green sidings and it took me 20 mins to get from Earls Court to Parsons Green and 20 mins to get back to Earls Court.

I dont know, I am not a district Line Controller, but if i was on the desk this morning, I would have done as i said a couple of posts above...

[Colin]

Parsons Green is nearer to Earls Court, which is where most of the spare drivers are, and where most of the west end reforms are carried out. Also, once an Ealing train leaves Turnham Green it must go to Ealing (Common or Broadway) - so if a problem develops on that branch you really do have problems.

With regard to the original problem - it was a mainline burst on 7052+7125. The train had to be moved to Ealing Common depot using assisting driver procedures - this being carried out after the evening peak (with yours truly almost being one of the two - till I copped a full 8 hour running turn ).

[Phil]

colin said:

With regard to the original problem - it was a mainline burst on 7052+7125. The train had to be moved to Ealing Common depot using assisting driver procedures - this being carried out after the evening peak (with yours truly almost being one of the two - till I copped a full 8 hour running turn ).

Care to do a Q8 and describe the job in detail??

[Deleted]

As Met Apprentice says the common sense approach is to send half to Ealing and half to Parsons Green (and if it's just before the pm peak, to turn some of the Upminster pm peak starters back at Whitechapel to Upminster).

and this is in fact what usually happens in practice.

However if you have a "crippled train" running or being assisted at slow speed to Ealing, then obviously you need to send most trains down to Wimbo!

Of much more use when you have a large number of Parsons Green reversers, would be some station staff to do the detrainments ...it is the detrainments that take all the time and delay the through service !

[DWS]

On the subject of station staff, I was under the impression that now Ticket Offices are only open for a short time, that this would free up staff to attend platforms for incidents.

[c5]

dws said:

On the subject of station staff, I was under the impression that now Ticket Offices are only open for a short time, that this would free up staff to attend platforms for incidents.

Ah, but many stations now have less staff following the SWW (Shorter Working Week) and some are now unmanned through all or part of the day. Found out the other day that the next round of comlete ticket office equipment will be announced soon with at least 7 station ticket office closing forever on the Met.
Perhaps Prestige (the Oyster Card PFI consortium) can then use that equipment on National Rail.

Pity Ken can't practice what he preches for LUL news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4644556.stm

[Colin]

dws said:

On the subject of station staff, I was under the impression that now Ticket Offices are only open for a short time, that this would free up staff to attend platforms for incidents.

You would think so, wouldn't you

rbruce1314 said:

Care to do a Q8 and describe the job in detail??

There's always one ;D ;D ;D

I'm led to believe that the burst was on one of the leading DM cars, which means that because of the isolations made to locate it, that leading cab cannot be supplied with main line air - and thus the train cannot be driven from that end.

In order to move the train, we use the assisting driver procedure - this can either be using another train or (as in this case) a driver in the rear cab driving in reverse (under instruction from the driver at the front).

The two drivers must come to a complete understanding on how the train is to be worked, including how they will communicate and the extent of the move - they must also be able to get the brakes on and off.

When the defective end of the train is leading, the rear cab is set up thus (on a D stock): Rear trip cut out (to prevent forward movement), slow speed selected and door open MCB's operated (to prevent accidental opening). At the leading end, the driver will display a white light by using their torch. The brakes on the leading DM will be cut out using the brake isolating cock (and the train 'driven through' the spring applied parking brake. The driver in the leading cab will have an emergency brake available - by placing the CTBC into emergency.

When the train is being driven with the defect at the rear, the brakes on those cars have to be isolated using the brake isolating cocks - with the spring applied parking brakes being 'driven through'.

*I think* that basically covers it - though i'm sure i'll be corrected if i'm wrong (cue Solidbond to request that I undertake further training ;D ;D).

BTW - spring applied parking brakes are only fitted on motor cars, and apply automatically as air is lost in the brake cylinders.

[Ben]

Send them all to Northfields and make use of those extra capabilities of the destination boards...
With regards to the station ticket office closures, I understand that 50 are going system wide, including my local, Ruislip. Untill the ticket machiens can dispense oyster cards and give change in notes too this is a short sighted and stupid move I think. Is there a petition one can sign to keep the offices open? O/T I know!

[trainopd78]

The biggest problem with Ealing broadway that time of morning is that the interpeak stablers also go round at Ealing. I still reckon that 50% increase in service to Ealing may have been a good idea though. We had a good controller on yesterday, so I reckon there may have been other factors (Acton town picc perhaps?) why trains couldn't go round at Ealing.

[solidbond]

colin said:

I'm led to believe that the burst was on one of the leading DM cars, which means that because of the isolations made to locate it, that leading cab cannot be supplied with main line air - and thus the train cannot be driven from that end.

In order to move the train, we use the assisting driver procedure - this can either be using another train or (as in this case) a driver in the rear cab driving in reverse (under instruction from the driver at the front).

The two drivers must come to a complete understanding on how the train is to be worked, including how they will communicate and the extent of the move - they must also be able to get the brakes on and off.

When the defective end of the train is leading, the rear cab is set up thus (on a D stock): Rear trip cut out (to prevent forward movement), slow speed selected and door open MCB's operated (to prevent accidental opening). At the leading end, the driver will display a white light by using their torch. The brakes on the leading DM will be cut out using the brake isolating cock (and the train 'driven through' the spring applied parking brake. The driver in the leading cab will have an emergency brake available - by placing the CTBC into emergency.

When the train is being driven with the defect at the rear, the brakes on those cars have to be isolated using the brake isolating cocks - with the spring applied parking brakes being 'driven through'.

*I think* that basically covers it - though i'm sure i'll be corrected if i'm wrong (cue Solidbond to request that I undertake further training ;D ;D).

BTW - spring applied parking brakes are only fitted on motor cars, and apply automatically as air is lost in the brake cylinders.

An almost perfect answer Colin - but only if you happen to have a C and D stock combined into one ;D ;D I'll recommend some additional stock training for you to the LSM
You don't cut out the rear trip on a D stock - you trip the door interlock MCB - SAPBs on D stock will come on as soon as you lose Main Line air, and have no relationship to the brake cylinder pressure ;D I'll stop there before I embarrass you too much ;D

[Deleted]

What isolations would be needed to cut off the leading cab during a burst? Does cutting out the control equipment via the Con.COS and the unit compressor via the Com.COS also isolate the cab?

[solidbond]

In fact, on a D stock, a main line burst SHOULDN'T prevent the train from being driven from the front. The reason a C stock can't be driven from the front with a main line burst is that there is no way to charge the Train Line from the front, hence a push-out is needed. On a D stock, it is possible to sub-isolate within the unit, using a 3-way cock in the trailer car. This should allow the burst to be confined to the UNDM or DM. With no Train Line air, it SHOULD be possible to move the train from the front with either a burst on the UNDM or DM, however the BIC should be operated on the motor car(s) affected by the burst, to prevent the air brake from applying on top of the SAPBs. This is because there is a brake supply reservoir which holds enough air for about 8-10 applications of the air brake. In addition, if the burst is on the DM, the leading tripcock also needs to be cut out due to no air below the pressure switches, and slow speed will then need to be selected. If the burst is on the trailer car, then it is treated as a unit burst, and there will be no main line air on all 3 cars of the unit. In this case, BICs on both UNDM and DM will be cut out, the TCIS on the DM, and the compressor MCB in the leading cab tripped out as well. This is the burst that could give most problems, as there will now only be 2 motor cars available on the train, and the SAPBs will be applied on 2 cars, however the train SHOULD, and generally will, move, however if one of the remaining motor cars should be gapped then the train most likely would not move.

[Phil]

Does 'driving through ' the SAPB mean what I think it does? If so, how can distances more than a few hundred metres be covered? Won't you end up with worn out shoes (or even flats)?

[solidbond]

rbruce1314 said:

Does 'driving through ' the SAPB mean what I think it does? If so, how can distances more than a few hundred metres be covered? Won't you end up with worn out shoes (or even flats)?

The SAPB was always designed to be driven through. It is a pressure that is strong enough to prevent a train that is stationary from beginning to roll, and will slow a train down that is moving, (and ultimately stop it ) but not enough to prevent it moving altogether. If it was to be driven for too long, it would indeed wear out the shoes, but the wheels should still be turning, hence the reason they are fitted to motor cars only

[Phil]

Can they be driven through even if the motors on that car are isolated, or is that a 'no-no'?

[solidbond]

rbruce1314 said:

Can they be driven through even if the motors on that car are isolated, or is that a 'no-no'?

As it happens, yes they can generally, although I have seen the wheels being dragged once while training in Upminster depot. So it gives you an idea of the pressure that the springs put on the wheels

[Hutch]

I'll second Benedict's Northfields motion.

West on the local - tip out in peace - depot,reverse-east on local. Should only conflict with picc crossing to the east local.

[Deleted]

rbruce1314 said:

Does 'driving through ' the SAPB mean what I think it does? If so, how can distances more than a few hundred metres be covered? Won't you end up with worn out shoes (or even flats)?

I presume the D stock is the same, but on a 73ts the SAPB only applies on the Motor cars, as stated, and only on certain wheels. Imagine you are looking down on a bogie, the SAPB applies to the top left and bottom right wheels.

I know what i mean, really!

[Colin]

solidbond said:

An almost perfect answer Colin - but only if you happen to have a C and D stock combined into one ;D ;D I'll recommend some additional stock training for you to the LSM

Well I tried - let's hope I never have to do it for real...........that would be interesting ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Deleted]

hutch said:

I'll second Benedict's Northfields motion.

West on the local - tip out in peace - depot,reverse-east on local. Should only conflict with picc crossing to the east local.

The problem with that is that District T/Ops are not road trained on the Acton Town - Northfields section, so every train would need a pilotman conductor.

[solidbond]

metapprentice said:

I presume the D stock is the same, but on a 73ts the SAPB only applies on the Motor cars, as stated, and only on certain wheels. Imagine you are looking down on a bogie, the SAPB applies to the top left and bottom right wheels.

I know what i mean, really!

No - D stock, and indeed C stock, have SAPBs on all wheels on all bogies on Motor cars.