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Post by su31 on Oct 12, 2011 16:12:23 GMT
Work has now started on Platform 2 @ CLJ. It has a new stopping point half-way down the platform from the Imperial Wharf direction, and the other half of the platform has been hoarded off, and some track is being lifted at the country end of platform 2 and the old disused sidings. This is in preparation for the remaining LOROL services via south London which are reported to start in December 2012. There is a snippet of information on page 5 of the latest Railway Herald magazine www.railwayherald.co.uk/magazine/pdf/RHUK/Issue286.pdf
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Post by uzairjubilee on Oct 12, 2011 17:27:44 GMT
How much space is there between the track serving platform 2 and the track serving platform 3?
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Post by su31 on Oct 12, 2011 17:45:42 GMT
How much space is there between the track serving platform 2 and the track serving platform 3? Not a lot! there are some barriers built from scaffolding poles which separate the track from the worksite, but tbh, they are not the greatest protection. LU wouldn't dream of working so close to live tracks with trains running.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 13, 2011 17:29:07 GMT
How much space is there between the track serving platform 2 and the track serving platform 3? There is another track, i believe the 'goods loop', running between those tracks. This will be involved in the work.
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Post by uzairjubilee on Oct 13, 2011 20:26:50 GMT
Oh okay. I went through CJ on Friday and it looked tight!
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Oct 13, 2011 23:14:58 GMT
Are these platforms ok for 6 carriages each then?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2011 13:11:47 GMT
The proposed layout is something of a compromise as the cost of restoring platform 1 is prohibitive. This is apparently due to deterioration of structures and that a signal engineer popped an equipment cabin on the trackbed. It is from the era when current engineers are worried that if they try to move it, it will fall apart, cost too much etc. So the original concept of a convenient cross-platform interchange has gone by the board for engineering considerations. Whether the mid-platform buffer stops are permanent is not known, hopefully some will find out at LOROL's next Passenger Group Liaison Mtg on 9/11, if there is anything illuminating someone I'm sure will pass it on! It is understood that Kensington Sidings are to be reinstated but again, the facts are awaited!
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Post by mrjrt on Oct 22, 2011 13:40:15 GMT
Are we still expecting a Cambridge-alike layout or a former-West Croydon-alike layout? (aka. crossover or built-out platform)
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Oct 22, 2011 18:09:36 GMT
Are we still expecting a Cambridge-alike layout or a former-West Croydon-alike layout? (aka. crossover or built-out platform) A West-Croydon-as-was layout is what is being built.
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Post by mrjrt on Oct 23, 2011 0:13:10 GMT
Shame. Seems such an unnecessary waste of a through line.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2011 3:48:18 GMT
If it is a 'West Croydon' rather than a 'Cambridge', that completely screws up the means for a WLL train to proceed forward into sidings. And what happens when a WLL train arrives @ 2A (or whatever it is to be designated) and falls down on the job! This seems terribly ill thought out to me, but the guy who acted as coordinator for NORP (now defunct) was sure everything would be A-OK and all hunky-dory and nothing would be a problem. What he described sounded more a Cambridge type layout. Those involved with the SLL and WLL have had some explanation of what is happening, but TfL's so called consultation seems a bit fragmented. Hmmm ... The loop Uzair refers to will become the new SLL Reversible to 2B (or whatever). Cross-Platform would have been so much simpler but this, dare I say it, seems another sod-the-passenger, embrace the engineer solution.
NORP = North Orbital Rail Partnership LB Brent CoOrdinated work. Sorry, I'm getting confused; Uzair refers to space, D7080 mentions the loop. The loop occupies the space between Ps 2 and 3. Confused ....... Ben's point about 6 cars merit's thought; NR, the L&SE RUS refer to 6 car sets for growth, but TfL always refers to 5, and their published aspiration is to extend most stations for 5 car sets.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 23, 2011 8:05:43 GMT
And what happens when a WLL train arrives @ 2A (or whatever it is to be designated) and falls down on the job! As I understand it both platforms will be reachable from both the SLL and WLL, so a service could be maintained on both lines even if one platform was occupied by a dead train. WLL services may also be diverted to platform 17 if necessary. No doubt re-opening platform 1 was considered, but as I understand it the entire viaduct is no longer strong enough to support anything more than the portacbins that are there. Rebuilding would probably require closure of platform 2 for the duration. if that had been the only way forward, it simply wouldn't have happened at all.
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Oct 23, 2011 8:17:40 GMT
Sorry, I'm getting confused; Uzair refers to space, D7080 mentions the loop. The loop occupies the space between Ps 2 and 3. Confused ........ Most of the platform islands at Clapham jct have a track either side which means there are two tracks between adjacent islands. The space between platforms 2 and 3 has,uniquely,three tracks....one for each platform and an additional (presently) unelectrified line down the middle....this is the "loop" referred to,and will be electrified and a platform provided.Any work on this track will be very close to the electrified line serving platform 3,as well as the WLL at platform 2. This loop was used in the past for access to the (Kensington) sidings beyond the station to the West,and had pointwork to enable engines at Platform 2 (and Platform 1 too?) to run-around their trains in the days of the Kensington Belle. Hope this clears up any confusion....
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Post by andypurk on Oct 23, 2011 20:32:42 GMT
If it is a 'West Croydon' rather than a 'Cambridge', that completely screws up the means for a WLL train to proceed forward into sidings. And what happens when a WLL train arrives @ 2A (or whatever it is to be designated) and falls down on the job! This seems terribly ill thought out to me, but the guy who acted as coordinator for NORP (now defunct) was sure everything would be A-OK and all hunky-dory and nothing would be a problem. What he described sounded more a Cambridge type layout. Those involved with the SLL and WLL have had some explanation of what is happening, but TfL's so called consultation seems a bit fragmented. Hmmm ... There won't be a huge problem if a train fails in the current platform 2, as other trains can either use the new platform or platform 17 (as happens during engineering work). The yard is of little use anyway, as it is not electrified. The Cambridge solution would be more expensive, due to needing more track and signaling work as well as similar amounts of platform work to the chosen solution (platform 2 would need to be extended further east to allow for the crossover in the middle).
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 23, 2011 21:56:23 GMT
Where will the platform for the loop be provided?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 23, 2011 22:34:27 GMT
Where will the platform for the loop be provided? It will be built out over the "country" end of the track currently serving platform 2 - thus that track will become a half length terminal bay facing London (and the WLL, more to the point!)and the loop, while remaining a through track, will acquire a half-length platform face. p2 //////////////////////////// -------------------------------- (to WLL) --------------------------------- (loop) -------------------------------- (up Windsor slow) p3 /////////////////////////// will become p2a ////////////////////////// p2b /////////////[------------ (to WLL) --------------------------------- (former loop, to SLL) -------------------------------- (up Windsor slow) p3 ///////////////////////////
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 7:25:54 GMT
I had a look yesterday.
Platform 2 has been cut back to slightly more than half its previous length and a buffer stop installed. The remaining platform looks to be able to hold certainly five and probably six coaches. One downside is that almost three quarters of a four car is now outside the platform canopy.
The 'loop' line has been completely relaid from the exit points to beyond the existing platform end. All the old sidings (latterly disconnected IIRC) have been removed. The bed of the continuation of the 'loop' line was being bottom ballasted.
There was no sign of any of the other sidings being relaid but from the amount of new rail on the ground there may be.
The foundation trench for the new platform 2B edge was being dug out.
There will probably be some signal changes as the exit from platform 2B is only a ground signal at the moment.
Andy
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Post by trc666 on Oct 25, 2011 13:05:37 GMT
Regarding the broken down train in platform 2 issue, the layout of Clapham Junction also allows a train from the WLL to reach platforms 3 to 7 and also Clapham Yard, but platforms 4 and 7 would be unsignalled moves.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 15:41:10 GMT
This will be a very useful link for me, a shame though that Surrey Canal Road will be unmanned.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 16:09:25 GMT
p2 //////////////////////////// -------------------------------- (to WLL) --------------------------------- (loop) -------------------------------- (up Windsor slow) p3 /////////////////////////// will become p2a ////////////////////////// p2b /////////////[------------ (to WLL) --------------------------------- (former loop, to SLL) -------------------------------- (up Windsor slow) p3 /////////////////////////// Thanks, that's really helpful. Very sad that CPI can't be achieved by opening up platform 1, but that seems to be the best solution.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2011 18:31:16 GMT
The answer to all our questions is in the latest December Modern Railways, with its annual London feature. There's a complete section on the new Platform 2, and an 'explanation' as to why rebuilding Platform 1 was not possible at this stage.
Hmmm...., I'm still not sure I buy their argument, if they had started it a while ago and been prepared to move the portakabins with the signalling kit, the more convenient cross-platform would have been possible.
Reading between the lines, if you'll pardon the pun, eventually they will have to rebuild Platform 1. But when?
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Post by andypurk on Nov 27, 2011 19:13:30 GMT
The answer to all our questions is in the latest December Modern Railways, with its annual London feature. There's a complete section on the new Platform 2, and an 'explanation' as to why rebuilding Platform 1 was not possible at this stage. Hmmm...., I'm still not sure I buy their argument, if they had started it a while ago and been prepared to move the portakabins with the signalling kit, the more convenient cross-platform would have been possible. But, as is also mentioned in the article, it's not just the portakabins, but the structural problems with the arches on which the platform 1 trackbed lies. The combination of moving the signaling equipment and reinforcing the arches would have been more expensive that the infrastructure works for adding the extra platform in the way chosen. Possibly, but they seem to be planning to build a lightweight extension to widen the platform, if it is needed, rather than reinstating the track. Further into the future, it may be cheaper to just add a new bridge outside the old trackbed to add a third platform, rather than strengthening the existing trackbed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2011 22:15:52 GMT
Take your point entirely Andypurk, yes restoration of Platform 1 will require a major civil engineering job, but looking at the photo of the North side entrance (Modern Railways Dec 2011 p54 and related article) suggests that a new structure of steel girders and trackbed is by no means impossible. I have changed to the WLL/NLL so many times now, but not gone outside!
Interestingly, before the state of the sub-structure argument emerged, it was the state of the signalling cabling and equipment. The fragility and importance of the signalling system meant, so I was told, that moving or altering it significantly could lead to many problems, hence the original suggestion that I heard was to install a Cambridge style crossover. Again that was too costly so we have ended up with the present set-up, for better or worse.
The convenience of the cross-platform interchange is lost, but using the lightweight structures now possible for platforms, both steel and GRP products are available that might be used to enlarge the circulating area. This seems an interesting medium term idea, as the crowding now with up to 200 waiting while even more get off shows just how busy it could be. And this project only came on the official agenda 10 years ago!
It will be interesting to see how this works, and how well the future WLL services operate with Northbound trains running from the extreme opposite sides of Clapham Jct!
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Post by andypurk on Nov 30, 2011 23:12:40 GMT
It will be interesting to see how this works, and how well the future WLL services operate with Northbound trains running from the extreme opposite sides of Clapham Jct! But there will be no difference in the future northbound WLL platforming compared to now, at least until the Southern service frequency increases. At the moment there are 4 LO tph from platform 2 and 1 Southern tph from platform 16 (plus peak extras from platform 17).
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Post by su31 on Dec 26, 2011 13:59:25 GMT
For info, signage has been recently changed at Clapham Junction, and the platform directional signs in the over-bridge now point to platforms 17-1 (rather than 17-2 as was). Indeed, it looks like the "new" ELL extention service will run from the new platform 1 (technically 2A) as the track/platform infrastructure has been altered quite considerably.
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Post by su31 on Feb 7, 2012 15:01:31 GMT
I stand corrected on the numbering! A poster is on display which reads...
Following the construction of the new "East London Lines" platform, the following platforms will be renumbered from Monday 23 January. -Platform 1 will be changed to Platform 0 -Platform 2 (North London Lines Platform) will become Platform 1 -The new East London Lines platform will be named Platform 2
Please take note of your new platform numbers from this date.
Other platform numbers remain the same.
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Post by trt on Feb 7, 2012 15:13:19 GMT
POIDH!
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Post by causton on Feb 7, 2012 15:50:32 GMT
East London Line s
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Post by su31 on Feb 7, 2012 16:20:47 GMT
That's what the poster says...
I'm not on flickr or anything so can't post a pic there, will see if I can upload but it's on my phone at the mo.
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Post by Deep Level on Feb 7, 2012 19:54:41 GMT
Where will ELL Trains from the SLL be terminating?
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