Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
|
Post by Phil on Jul 5, 2009 8:20:41 GMT
Now in the second weekend of trials, I wonder if the controllers or signallers can yet tell us if this weekend is better (hopefully) or worse than last.....
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,766
|
Post by Chris M on Jul 5, 2009 8:32:10 GMT
I had a short trip on the Circle yesterday (Monument to Liverpool Street), and there were no announcements (manual or automatic) made on the train I was on.
There were (and presumably will be again today) paper notices at Liverpool Street (at the entrance to the SSR platforms from the ticket hall) and Aldgate (on platform 4) noting the different service pattern. These were phrased something like: No westbound Circle Line trains from plaform <number> today. For Paddington take the H&C, for Bayswater, HSK change at Edgware Road. I might be able to get some photos today.
At one station on the south side of the Circle I heard the service update announcement describe the t-cup trial as a "special service" (more positive than last week's "restricted service") although most didn't mention it at all.
|
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Jul 5, 2009 10:12:22 GMT
My photos on the "Circles to go" locked thread show people lumbering across the footbridge after *finally* realising they were on the wrong train/platform. Many more were still on platform 3/4 or on the train that had terminated in platform 3.
This has always happened in peak hours but off-peak, trains terminating at Edgware Road normally go into platform 2 allowing cross-platform interchange with EB Circle/H&C trains. Incidentally there were about 4 staff members on platform 1/2, 1 on the middle footbridge, and none of platform 3/4.
As regards the C Stock at Hammersmith (Met), this had shown "Hammersmith via Shepherds Bush" on arrival, then been changed to "Circle Line". But since there were no alterations to line diagrams, or special posters, or PA messages, anyone unfamiliar with the network (or diverted from the disruption on the District/Piccadilly Lines) may well have had no idea which route this train was going to take upon reaching Edgware Road (OK, it couldn't have gone straight onto the Inner Rail without reversing but not every passenger carries a Quail Map for such emergencies!).
At least on the Circle-proper the platform TDs try to explain the direction taken (e.g. "Circle Line via Embankment", though that requires a degree of route knowledge too). It beggars belief that the Hammersmith - Royal Oak section *still* has no train describers in 2009 and that Wood Lane seems to have actually been built without them.
Their installation would benefit far more people than served by the occasional multi-million pound "step-free" lift (at Acton Town, to be sure, there is step-free access to the District Line, but the floor height of a D Stock on platform 1 must be around 10 inches above the platform).
|
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Jul 5, 2009 10:51:55 GMT
Controller's view: I am nights (again  ) this weekend, so get only to see the beginning and end of each day. This is not a full-on view of what is happening during the day, but, as I did last night, I did sift through the log-book to see what had happened, and you do get to hear some of the occurances of that day. Notably this weekend, we have a larger number than usual of train operator duties that require covering. This is due either to long-term sickness, unforseen absence and annual leave. This has unfortunately led to more cancellations than last weekend. The forecast is pretty gloomy for later on today. This of course could happen on any weekend, but because it's a trial weekend, it could end up smudging the true results. There were actually a few service delays and a signalling failure yesterday, which meant the robustness of the timetable and the recovery options got a bit of a test. Overall it seems to have coped fairly well. Farringdon sidings and Whitechapel were both used during recovery though, which won't eventually be available. I had a train leave Barking some 15 minutes late early yesterday morning, and although this caused an extended interval towards Hammersmith, following the booked turn-round time, and recovery time between Hammersmith and Edgware Road, the train arrived back on its Circle Line trip more or less on time. On the current timetable, such a service would have been unlikely to recover much at Hammersmith, and would likely have been short-tripped at Plaistow or Moorgate (depending on booked destination) on it's eastbound trip. I have noticed a few more posters stuck around, particularly on the westbound I use between Kings Cross and Baker Street, informing people to take the first Hammersmith and change at Edgware Road. Maybe they were there last weekend, but let's just say I have noticed them more this week. Perhaps they are more prominent this weekend. |
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Jul 5, 2009 10:54:25 GMT
As regards the C Stock at Hammersmith (Met), this had shown "Hammersmith via Shepherds Bush" on arrival, then been changed to "Circle Line". But since there were no alterations to line diagrams, or special posters, or PA messages, anyone unfamiliar with the network (or diverted from the disruption on the District/Piccadilly Lines) may well have had no idea which route this train was going to take upon reaching Edgware Road (OK, it couldn't have gone straight onto the Inner Rail without reversing but not every passenger carries a Quail Map for such emergencies!). This is common practice on the current timetable (and has been for years). Outer-Rail trains originating from Hammersmith show "Circle Line" and Inner-Rail trains display "Edgware Road" or "Moorgate" depending on where we intend on spinning them. |
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Jul 5, 2009 10:59:43 GMT
It beggars belief that the Hammersmith - Royal Oak section *still* has no train describers in 2009 and that Wood Lane seems to have actually been built without them. This project is on and off the table. It was last on the table just before the financial meltdown. The biggest cost is installation of the display screens themselves. The information can then be supplied by the Trackernet system until such times as full re-signalling occurs. This is similar to the Uxbridge branch mentioned elsewhere on the forum. There are no describers on the Hammersmith branch. There won't be by December. So this part is, I'm afraid, best left with those other ideas. Everything going west, I can assure you, is going to Hammersmith, and hopefully a train will turn up more or less every 5 minutes ;D |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2009 11:57:12 GMT
Controller's view: I am nights (again ) this weekend, so get only to see the beginning and end of each day. This is not a full-on view of what is happening during the day, but, as I did last night, I did sift through the log-book to see what had happened, and you do get to hear some of the occurances of that day. Notably this weekend, we have a larger number than usual of train operator duties that require covering. This is due either to long-term sickness, unforseen absence and annual leave. This has unfortunately led to more cancellations than last weekend. The forecast is pretty gloomy for later on today. Mmm... Edgware Road has just been bunged up for around 10 minutes due no T/op available to take out an Inner Rail from platform 2. I notice that the H&C platforms at Paddington now have a next train indicator, showing all eastbound Circle services as terminating at Liverpool Street. |
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Jul 5, 2009 12:50:53 GMT
It beggars belief that the Hammersmith - Royal Oak section *still* has no train describers in 2009 and that Wood Lane seems to have actually been built without them. This project is on and off the table. It was last on the table just before the financial meltdown. The biggest cost is installation of the display screens themselves. The information can then be supplied by the Trackernet system until such times as full re-signalling occurs. This is similar to the Uxbridge branch mentioned elsewhere on the forum. There are no describers on the Hammersmith branch. There won't be by December. So this part is, I'm afraid, best left with those other ideas. Everything going west, I can assure you, is going to Hammersmith, and hopefully a train will turn up more or less every 5 minutes ;D @metcontrol Paddington (Suburban) has got a modern DMI so presumably is able to receive descriptions from Hammersmith box. www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/3685063299/As regards Circle Line trains starting from Hammersmith (and Barking), I'm well aware this has gone on for many years but is still confusing to *some* people given that the line does not run between Hammersmith - Edgware Road or Barking - Aldgate East. If I were still a T/Op I would show "Edgware Road" from Barking, changing to "Circle Line" at Liverpool Street but most drivers just stick "Circle Line" on the front from the off. This has confused me on occasions and more than once I've had to stick my head out of the doors at Aldgate East to ensure the Guard's repeater has the harbour-light bar to the right, because the odd train is sometimes sent onto the Outer Rail via the south side of the Aldgate triangle. I suppose a train from Hammersmith could show "Liverpool Street" or "Aldgate" then change to "Circle Line" at Paddington but that's not much good at the rear, which is the only blind passengers get to see at Hammersmith, because no one is going to change that en-route. Maybe they should defer the T-Cup until the S Stock arrive? (And replace the C Stock fleet first.) |
|
|
|
Post by upfast on Jul 5, 2009 16:25:36 GMT
Unless they have installed Train Description equipment at Hammersmith there is no TD transmitting available at Hammersmith, either to or fro. It may be put up by the Edgware Road signal operator at Paddington Suburban however.
I understand that there were a fair few 10 and some 20 minute gaps on the Circle line today, probably ONAs as MetControl says.
|
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Jul 5, 2009 17:56:52 GMT
As regards Circle Line trains starting from Hammersmith (and Barking), I'm well aware this has gone on for many years but is still confusing to *some* people given that the line does not run between Hammersmith - Edgware Road or Barking - Aldgate East. But having said that, from December, the map will change to show that it does run over at least the Hammersmith-Edgware Road sections. The Barking-Aldgate section is another matter. A Circle from here could easily go inner or outer without a reversal. But both the examples are potential problems that exist now, and could well exist in December. It is not directly linked with the new timetable. At least as far as the first problem, the map will show the area as being "on the Circle." I'm not trying to dismiss all you say (despite how it seems  ) it's simply trying to sift out what is basically an issue now (which in many ways should be sorted now) compared to what we need to concentrate on for December. I notice that the H&C platforms at Paddington now have a next train indicator, showing all eastbound Circle services as terminating at Liverpool Street. They obviously got that far before the money was cut. I would presume (though am not 100%) that it is fed from the Trackernet system, at least as far as prediciting arrival times. No train description kit has been installed at Hammersmith signal cabin, and as far as I know Edgware Road's input is the same as it always was - that they set up descriptions at Paddington for signalling purposes and they are not shown on the platforms at Paddington. I understand that there were a fair few 10 and some 20 minute gaps on the Circle line today, probably ONAs as MetControl says. Most probably. If it's all reflecting what was forecast then the gaps may become larger later this evening. Maybe an early night on the H&C and Circle. Doesn't help our customers, but certainly helps me ;D ;D |
|
|
|
Post by dannyofelmpark on Jul 5, 2009 19:04:58 GMT
can someone please explain the set numbering from these t-cup trails please as this weekend i noticed that the normal numbering of 23_ or 24_ for H+C trains was also used for some t-cup trains and some H+C trains were numbered 20_ or 21_ normally used for circles. also since L.U.L have kept so quite about these t-cup trails i wonder if this poster would have made any difference www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo.php?pid=284862&id=1597547949&ref=mf |
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Jul 5, 2009 19:36:21 GMT
We'll have to see what happens in December. Perhaps a week's trial should have been done to see how T-Cup performed with the maximum numder of trains and passengers, especially regarding the ability of Edgware Road box to cope with the number of movements. I recall how the "Covered Way" work looked fine on paper but, IIRC, didn't even last a full week! Obviously come December signs can be permantly altered, if only with plastic stickers initailly, and Journey Planners reprinted. Not sure about platform TDs though, should they show "Edgware Road" on the O.R. after leaving Aldgate?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2009 19:59:11 GMT
Just been having a quick look on the TfL Journey Planner and it seems somewhat confused.
For a journey 'starting now' from Bayswater to Aldgate it gave me a choice of options - 'Circle line towards Liverpool Street' through in 31 mins; or (in 35 mins) 'Take the Circle Line towards Liverpool Street' (sometimes - not always - with District to Edgware Road as an alternative) then changing at Edgware Road (little note about no through Circle trains there this weekend) to (once again) 'Take the Circle Line towards Liverpool Street' (never an H&C option!). Or one option with the Central from Notting Hill Gate to Liverpool Street!
Changing the destination to Euston Square it gave me a consistent option of changing at Edgware Road (sometimes even to an H&C train) - but changeing to 'least changes option' gave a consistent 'Take the Circle Line towards Liverpool Street' taking 47 minutes without a change (against the 15 with)
Looking at the 'live travel news' that showed a 'good service' on the the Circle - somewhat economical with the truth I thought, given that under stations it did admit to no through trains at Edgware Road
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,766
|
Post by Chris M on Jul 5, 2009 20:13:59 GMT
a fuller report of my travells on the circle today with some photos will come later (maybe Tuesday) but it was interesting to note that the service was described as 'enhanced' at Aldgate, 'special' at Baker Street and 'Restricted' at Paddington circle.
Having seen how busy the platforms at Edgware Road got at about 6pm on a Sunday when an eastbound train was a few minutes late, I have serious doubts about the station's ability to cope if the same thing happened in the rush hour.
|
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 5, 2009 20:21:41 GMT
under stations it did admit to no through trains at Edgware Road That seems to be the only place on the entire website it seems to be metioned that the Circle is broken. But the only people who will read that are the people starting or finishing their journey there, and the fact the circle is broken there will not affect them. MetControl mentioned the problem of trains from the Barking direction joining the Circle, and it not being apparent which way round they will go after Aldgate East. Presumably this will cease to be a problem after December, as if they are to join the Inner Rail they will be going to Hammersmith and can be indicated as such. |
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Jul 5, 2009 23:51:46 GMT
can someone please explain the set numbering from these t-cup trails please as this weekend i noticed that the normal numbering of 23_ or 24_ for H+C trains was also used for some t-cup trains and some H+C trains were numbered 20_ or 21_ normally used for circles. The numbering is not "self-contained" as it usually is - trust me this is one particular area that has caused most confusion for operating staff. Train 201 can be going anywhere from Plaistow to Hammersmith to a trip around the Inner-Rail. On the "normal" timetable it operates mainly around the Outer-Rail. We'll have to see what happens in December. Perhaps a week's trial should have been done to see how T-Cup performed with the maximum numder of trains and passengers, especially regarding the ability of Edgware Road box to cope with the number of movements. I recall how the "Covered Way" work looked fine on paper but, IIRC, didn't even last a full week! As touched on before in the other thread, a week-long test cannot realistically be done. Any trial longer than a couple of days, and you get people beginning to change their travel habits, and when you finish a trial of that length, you need to throw more information than at the start at customers to make them realise you are reverting back to the old timetable. Not only that, but as said before, there simply is not sufficient time to go down the road of a long trial. The 3 weekends are designed (as I said in the old thread) to act as a "toe in the water." Two weekends have now happened. Various bits of feedback have now been submitted - including those bits shown on here (it is being watched, trust me. Management trust the views of many who post on here ;D ) Just been having a quick look on the TfL Journey Planner and it seems somewhat confused. I think a few tweaks in the program will be made before December. Journey planners all over can be a bit temperamental. If you play with them, you can end up with all sorts of weird and wonderful combinations. A recent one I messed around with had me travelling miles by bus, train, and walking to get from my road to a friends house in the next street ;D a fuller report of my travells on the circle today with some photos will come later (maybe Tuesday) but it was interesting to note that the service was described as 'enhanced' at Aldgate, 'special' at Baker Street and 'Restricted' at Paddington circle. ;D That is interesting. I wonder if these had been produced locally (and hence were possibly influenced by that station's opinion of the timetable ;D). Having seen how busy the platforms at Edgware Road got at about 6pm on a Sunday when an eastbound train was a few minutes late, I have serious doubts about the station's ability to cope if the same thing happened in the rush hour. Do I take it this was the result of 2 (or more) trains terminating without onward eastbound services? The same does occur occasionally on the current timetable if things have gone wrong. However, this is normally caused by 2 District line trains terminating and not a District plus a "Circle." How loaded was the eastbound when it eventually arrived? Did you happen to notice the number of that eastbound. Wasn't train 201 was it? If it was, that was the loading of just 1 cancellation off of Hammersmith (i.e. a 10-minute interval.) Not sure, but what time did Wimbledon tip out today? Was this a factor? MetControl mentioned the problem of trains from the Barking direction joining the Circle, and it not being apparent which way round they will go after Aldgate East. Presumably this will cease to be a problem after December, as if they are to join the Inner Rail they will be going to Hammersmith and can be indicated as such. It will lessen, hopefully Trouble is, there is limited ability for the train describer equipment east Liverpool Street (on the District) to show where H&C trains are heading. The new timetable will still see a mixture of destinations early morning on trains out of Bakring sidings as is now. This mixture will at least reduce by one (there being no Inner-rails). As a footnote, the delays due to train operator coverage were certainly much less than forecast. It looks as though a good bit of crew management was carried out by the crew managers. |
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,766
|
Post by Chris M on Jul 6, 2009 0:14:31 GMT
;D That is interesting. I wonder if these had been produced locally (and hence were possibly influenced by that station's opinion of the timetable ;D). The posters at Baker Street certainly were certainly titled "Baker Street Station" in white on blue. I think the Aldgate posters were entitled "Circle Line" with a yellow headline band. Do I take it this was the result of 2 (or more) trains terminating without onward eastbound services? The same does occur occasionally on the current timetable if things have gone wrong. However, this is normally caused by 2 District line trains terminating and not a District plus a "Circle." How loaded was the eastbound when it eventually arrived? Did you happen to notice the number of that eastbound. Wasn't train 201 was it? If it was, that was the loading of just 1 cancellation off of Hammersmith (i.e. a 10-minute interval.) Not sure, but what time did Wimbledon tip out today? Was this a factor? I haven't got a clue about Wimbledon - I have no interest in Tennis at all. The crowded platform was the result of two trains arriving nearly simultaneously - a westbound Tcup and a District, plus some people who hadn't got on the previous train. I didn't spot the number of the train that arrived, sorry, but it was a H&C that arrived moderately full and departed with standees in every car but more heavily loaded at the rear. The previous terminating T-cup that arrived had a lot of people with cases on it coming accross the footbridge. My guess is that this train had picked up a load of passengersd ex-Heathrow Express. As the Piccadilly was out today, I guess at least some of these would normally not have travelled via Edgware Road. With the exception of one young CSA (who told me that I needed to get a permit to take photos on the station, and was later told off by an older lady CSA for standing between the yellow line and a stationary train in platform 2), the staff on platforms 1 and 2 were doing a good job of ensuring people got on and off the right train. The only staff member on the footbridge was a train operator waiting for his delayed Circle Line train (should have arrived at 13 minutes past iirc.), certainly until the service beds in this is a position that really should have a member of staff stationed in it. The T/op in question wasn't sold on the service pattern, mainly because more people were required to use the footbridge at Edgware Road, and the reduced frequency of Circle Line services. He did make a point the people don't like change, but I'm not certian if he was referring to change in general, changing trains or both. |
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Jul 6, 2009 0:29:27 GMT
I haven't got a clue about Wimbledon - I have no interest in Tennis at all. You and me both, which is why I didn't know ;D The only staff member on the footbridge was a train operator waiting for his delayed Circle Line train (should have arrived at 13 minutes past iirc.), certainly until the service beds in this is a position that really should have a member of staff stationed in it. The T/op in question wasn't sold on the service pattern, mainly because more people were required to use the footbridge at Edgware Road, and the reduced frequency of Circle Line services. He did make a point the people don't like change, but I'm not certian if he was referring to change in general, changing trains or both. Interesting. If he was waiting for the 1813 westbound pick-up (going by your mention of 6pm earlier) then that was train 232 which was cancelled at the time due to no driver being available. There were no pick-ups due on the eastbound. I wonder how long he waited ;D Yes the bridge should definately be somewhere that staff should be posted. The information on that bridge is pretty thin as it is. It has to be recognised that the bridge is to change from a structure to allow people to move from terminating Districts, to being a central area of interchange. |
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Jul 17, 2009 12:41:31 GMT
< warning; timetable geekery> Well, well, well. 1½ min stand time at High Street and Gloucester Road on the IR.  Smoothing the inbound Met at Baker Street, making it clockface KX - Aldgate [1]; very nice. I can't remember seeing that in ages, I think the last time was an Easter working notice from 1934. I like the structure of the workings 'paired' through Praed St. : if there is a booked working to take the diverging route, it is matched by a train in the opposite direction same branch a minute later. I also like the pattern of how the Tower Hill reversers slot in on a 20 minute basis. All in all it seems (on paper) a beautifully structured bit of timetabling. Very interested to see the stabilisation of Paddington (Suburban) - Hammersmith runtimes at 13½ min, in WTT 22 (Sats)it goes 03:00 - 06:30 13½, 06:30 - 23:30 15, 23:30 onwards 13½. I wonder if the stabilisation will continue come December, as weekdays it cycles: 03:00 - 07:00 13½, 07:00 - 08:30 14½, 08:30 - 10:45 14, 10:45 - 14:30 15, 14:30 - 20:15 14½, 20:15 - 23:00 15 and 23:00 onwards 13½. Not including the platform weighting! The eastbound stand time pattern at Earls Court has also stabilised instead of a right mish-mash of allowances (Sats), there is a more-or-less constant pattern of nothing, [e], nothing, nothing, [e], and repeat. Very nice. ;D
The only note of caution I would sound is would the structure be the same without the suspension west of West Kensington? I suspect so, because the 22 or 19 missing trains could quite readily be shared beyond West Ken between Ealing Broadway/Richmond including terminal allowances. I can see how the gaps would fill up IYSWIM, might have a doodle later.
The 'EC' service certainly seems a lot more logical with balanced stand time compared to several decades of Circle timetabling and TTNs 3/01 and 4/01 and 11/99. (Covered Way stuff); I might have gander at Sundays later.
[1] also stabilised at for city-bound trains; it hops around a bit normally with every other city one being a [d]; just glancing northwards I think the run times have flattened out too but I'd have to start digging a bit to check.
|
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Jul 18, 2009 19:54:04 GMT
For the first time in several years, it's bound to look smoother. Having the Circle and H&C running on 7½ to 8½ headways, trying to mesh with a Met service that runs mainly 10 minute headways north of Baker Street was always going to be messy. But everything is more rounded with 5 or 10 minute headways, and they all begin to match up nicely. It also means instead of having combined headways in the city averaging 2 minutes in the peak, you relax to a more lazy 2½ minute average. There's a fair bit of junction pathing now (not teaching you to suck eggs of course ). There are lots of moves over Aldgate and Baker Street where (on paper) H&C passes H&C and Met passes Met. Trouble is, it's so tight that I reckon very few of these moves actually happen as planned. There I've said it again too. On paper it works. Roll on December (or maybe give it until January) so we know one way or another if it really will ;D |
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Jul 18, 2009 20:26:58 GMT
For the first time in several years, it's bound to look smoother. Having the Circle and H&C running on 7½ to 8½ headways, trying to mesh with a Met service that runs mainly 10 minute headways north of Baker Street was always going to be messy. Yes, indeedy. The nearest to this for neatness is C235 from November 1972! However, runtimes have changed out of all recognition since then. There's a fair bit of junction pathing now (not teaching you to suck eggs of course ). There are lots of moves over Aldgate and Baker Street where (on paper) H&C passes H&C and Met passes Met. Trouble is, it's so tight that I reckon very few of these moves actually happen as planned. I might go and have an educated peer next time the service runs; certainly that end of things (OB2, OB27, OB45) seems a shade too close for comfort - which I why I didn't explicitly comment.  It will be interesting to see if there are any reforms/delays and what effect that has on the service. There I've said it again too. On paper it works. Roll on December (or maybe give it until January) so we know one way or another if it really will ;D Yeah; on paper it is a really nicely constructed timetable. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2009 23:34:30 GMT
ive been told that when it comes in in december that they will see how it goes in the 2 weeks up to the xmas timetable and if it dont work then back to the trusty wtt 22 in the new year
|
|
|
|
Post by ruislip on Jul 22, 2009 0:34:16 GMT
I'm kinda surprised with all the planned changes for the Circle that nobody has suggested anything about doing away with the off-peak Met service between Uxbridge and the City.
|
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Jul 22, 2009 6:29:39 GMT
I'm kinda surprised with all the planned changes for the Circle that nobody has suggested anything about doing away with the off-peak Met service between Uxbridge and the City. It is the Uxbridge - City services that give the clockface Met. service through the Extended Circle: apart from 0511½, 0525, 0540 (Northwood), 0539½ SB [Sats], 0633, 0650½ (Northwood), 0653, 0710 (Northwood), 0709½ [Suns] the inwards are all regular into and out of BkS. The City - outwards service is similar; clock face until the last 3 NB on a Saturday, last 6 out on a Sunday. It is also worth commenting that on the first weekend of the EC trial TTN 88/09 was in force on the Met. which was engineering work at Watford South Junction, giving a very regular pattern of Uxbridge/Northwood/Uxbridge/Northwood throughout the day. The second weekend saw the Met. suspended beyond Rickmansworth northwards TTN 78/09, so the service pattern changed again, with the Saturday Northwood originator becoming a Watford starter 10 minutes earlier. 0650½ and 0710 on Sunday became Ricky and Watford starters appropriately offset backwards. Using Uxbridge originators to provide a stable, regular and clock face City service allows the Met. main timetable to be altered. In the two weekends thus far run the Met has run in three distinct service patterns: suspended north of Northwood; suspended north of Rickmansworth and suspended north of Rickmansworth with SB Wembley strengthening (2205 - 2320). Edit: actually make that three-and-a-bit: nowt north of Ricky and SB Wembley (2235 - 2350). |
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Jul 22, 2009 7:07:15 GMT
ive been told that when it comes in in december that they will see how it goes in the 2 weeks up to the xmas timetable and if it dont work then back to the trusty wtt 22 in the new year No it will be longer than 2 weeks. I believe end of January was being seen as a proper guide in terms of getting people used to it, and it being stretched with failures etc. Let's not forget there are 2 different sides to this - failures and staffing issues. Both very different. (I use the term "staffing issues" to cover all manner of things, and we have already explored the fact that the train operator duties could be better in places and this is not a rant at that grade.) Now if we have no failures of equipment before the end of January (pretty unlikely) but we have several hours of delay due to staffing issues, which way are management going to swing? Abandon a "perfectly decent" timetable all because of "staff performance." I think the only way it will be withdrawn is a combination of the two. Countless failures over Praed Street Junction and countless delays due to staffing issues. |
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,766
|
Post by Chris M on Jul 22, 2009 11:54:37 GMT
how do customer issues fit into this? For example frequent overcrowding closures at Edgware Road and Paddington Bishop's Road. In bad (as well as worst) case scenarios overcrowding and closure of the latter could impact the adjacent FGW platforms, which I dare say neither them nor NR would be best pleased about.
What about significant increases in passenger complaints?
I hope that it doesn't happen, but if the service changes saw a statistically significant increase in assaults (verbal or otherwise) against staff, would this be taken into account?
Obviously all of these are more likely if operational issues (staff or equipment) occur, but even if it all goes swimmingly from that point of view, issues relating to customer reaction need to be taken into account.
Also from a staff point of view, if the new timetable makes the job of service controllers harder (e.g. when trying to recover the service from passenger-induced delays) then (how) will this be taken into account when determining success or failure.
|
|
Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
|
Post by Phil on Jul 22, 2009 13:55:26 GMT
Also from a staff point of view, if the new timetable makes the job of service controllers harder (e.g. when trying to recover the service from passenger-induced delays) then (how) will this be taken into account when determining success or failure. Metcontrol and his cronies will be shouting long and hard!!   |
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Jul 22, 2009 14:52:07 GMT
Also from a staff point of view, if the new timetable makes the job of service controllers harder (e.g. when trying to recover the service from passenger-induced delays) then (how) will this be taken into account when determining success or failure. Metcontrol and his cronies will be shouting long and hard!! We will shout, but, alas, I'm afraid it won't do much good. It hasn't done so far has it ;D Basically, we will do our best to keep things running, but I would imagine that we would be the last thing to see the timetable withdrawn. OK so if a service is continually late, despite our efforts, and if there really is no scope to recover it an huge gaps become the norm, then maybe somebody will notice. But even then, the likelihood is that the somebody will come and spend a shift with us - one where nothing goes wrong - and will attempt to tell us how to do our job to make the timetable work. As far as our customers are concerned, management are still hopeful that their habits will change and the timetable will work for them. And maybe they will. Or maybe they won't. I would still like to think that when we hit the new timetable that we change the emphasis on Paddington and try to move at least half of the customers towards Edgware Road, and keep the over-crowding and/or closures on our own turf. As Chris points out, we don't want to start infringing on National Rail territory. This could be history in the making (either good or bad.) So much has been said about this timetable, and it has now become so well known. All eyes will be on the H&C and Circle come 13th December and I daresay many will ask for it to be taken out that day - up to a year on the bandwagon for some people will mean they have no faith in it working from day one. But I would like to think we could give it a go and find out how it stands up (to be honest I wish it would hurry up and come in to answers all the questions we've been asking ;D But then again, I'm enjoying this British Summer too much  to want it to be December just yet. ) |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2009 20:56:43 GMT
OK guys, supposing the thing's a crock of sh*t, I'll hopefully have time (and a Freedom Pass  ) to ride around on it at the turn of the year collecting signatures on a petition - how many signatures will I need?  |
|
|
|
Post by londonstuff on Jul 22, 2009 21:23:10 GMT
Why be so negative? From reading the forum over the last year, it's obvious that the new timetable isn't going to be perfect, but it's not exactly a utopian, perfectly working system at the moment. It's often quoted here how management read the forum, if it genuinely doesn't work, fine, change it back, but it seems so much time and energy has gone into the new timetable change, why not be prepared to give it a go rather than slag it off before it's even started? Besides, if you're on a freedom pass and getting as much travel as you want for free, you're hardly in a position to complain are you? |
|
) this weekend, so get only to see the beginning and end of each day. This is not a full-on view of what is happening during the day, but, as I did last night, I did sift through the log-book to see what had happened, and you do get to hear some of the occurances of that day.
) it's simply trying to sift out what is basically an issue now (which in many ways should be sorted now) compared to what we need to concentrate on for December.
It will be interesting to see if there are any reforms/delays and what effect that has on the service. 
to want it to be December just yet. )
) to ride around on it at the turn of the year collecting signatures on a petition - how many signatures will I need? 
