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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2009 15:44:34 GMT
I think that is the case at one of the entrances to Aldgate East aswell. "District and Metropolitan Railways"  You may be thinking of South Kensington, as Aldgate East entrances were built after the formation of London Transport. tinyurl.com/ddb9kxNoooo It might however have been Aldgate, but I'm pretty sure it was Aldgate East. It might also have said line(s) instead of Railways. Nevertheless, it's wrong, as the met and the green don't share stations anymore.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2009 17:29:04 GMT
So how is this all going to work? If only the senior management will see that it won't work! I believe we have also lost Edgware Road & Farringdon Sidings this weekend, as they will be under possession. It will all add to the fun when we get a shutdown. I don't know if it will happen this weekend, but for the new TT we will have a Despatch Supervisor (or some stupid title like that) at Edgware Road to ensure the trains depart on time. Despite being in full uniform, he/she will not be there to answer any questions from passengers! I can't wait to see how that works! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2009 17:37:05 GMT
So how is this all going to work? If only the senior management will see that it won't work! I believe we have also lost Edgware Road & Farringdon Sidings this weekend, as they will be under possession. It will all add to the fun when we get a shutdown. I don't know if it will happen this weekend, but for the new TT we will have a Despatch Supervisor (or some stupid title like that) at Edgware Road to ensure the trains depart on time. Despite being in full uniform, he/she will not be there to answer any questions from passengers! I can't wait to see how that works! I'll tell you. Every time a member of the public approaches them, it will be logged as "customer incident" and management will say that it is the reason why the service is suffering delays. |
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Post by citysig on Oct 20, 2009 18:31:37 GMT
So, unlike before when you were fairly neutral, you're now firmly in favour of it    It's funny, but as I was typing away, I did think about my earlier remarks on this subject, like "It will work on paper," and any other hint at defending the service. But yes, you've got me, as the date approaches, and we as controllers see all the help other grades are getting compared to us (especially on the trial weekends) and how much will remain on our shoulders (that is, we'll have to try to put it right time whatever happens or having umpteen grumbles from upstairs, I am beginning to feel slightly more negative to the whole idea. When certain things happen even now, it is the controller who gets it in the neck when the cirumstances surrounding whatever happens are out of his/her control. Without expanding, let's just say if you had the task of completing a jigsaw puzzle, but you weren't supplied with all the pieces, why should it be down to you to try and fill in the blanks. If you see what I mean  ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2009 20:06:30 GMT
It's funny, but as I was typing away, I did think about my earlier remarks on this subject, like "It will work on paper," and any other hint at defending the service. But yes, you've got me, as the date approaches, and we as controllers see all the help other grades are getting compared to us (especially on the trial weekends) and how much will remain on our shoulders (that is, we'll have to try to put it right time whatever happens or having umpteen grumbles from upstairs, I am beginning to feel slightly more negative to the whole idea. When certain things happen even now, it is the controller who gets it in the neck when the cirumstances surrounding whatever happens are out of his/her control. Without expanding, let's just say if you had the task of completing a jigsaw puzzle, but you weren't supplied with all the pieces, why should it be down to you to try and fill in the blanks. If you see what I mean ;D Ah yes, but communism looks absolutely wonderful on paper. I think you can judge how well that went!! What you forgot is that we have all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle but unfortunately whatever we do with them is never right! |
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 20, 2009 20:44:53 GMT
Quite! The fact that the Met isn't even running this weekend may give false hope that the service may work. I'm tempted to take a ride on it on Sunday!
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 20, 2009 21:26:39 GMT
<puts hand up at the back of the class>
Wait and see what it looks like when the District is running east of West Ken. - I can see the 'galley gaps' and Wimbledon/Richmond stands in my imagination. Hmmm.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 20, 2009 22:20:30 GMT
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Post by ruislip on Oct 20, 2009 23:38:16 GMT
Quite! The fact that the Met isn't even running this weekend may give false hope that the service may work. I'm tempted to take a ride on it on Sunday! From what I saw on the TFL website a few days ago, the Met has no works planned for this weekend. If I were in the Capital attending the NFL game at Wembley, I would be a happy man since I could go to the game and back on A stock. ;D |
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 21, 2009 7:17:15 GMT
You're correct. Excellent, I can travel into London on A stock too! |
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Post by citysig on Oct 21, 2009 11:38:13 GMT
What you forgot is that we have all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle but unfortunately whatever we do with them is never right! Quite! The fact that the Met isn't even running this weekend may give false hope that the service may work. I'm tempted to take a ride on it on Sunday! It's not quite what I meant about not having all the pieces (but then it was a long-winded, slightly drink-enhanced attempt at a metaphorical similie thingy whatever you call it ;D ) We have the timetable. We have the track. We have the signals. We have the trains and stations. We also have the signallers to signal, the station staff to staff and the controllers to "control" but what we're missing on some occasions is... and it's not the cleaners. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2009 16:55:06 GMT
I will be in London this saturday to take a trip on the Heathrow express out of Paddington
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 31, 2009 9:48:00 GMT
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Post by citysig on Oct 31, 2009 10:40:41 GMT
Indeed, and the leaflet makes for interesting reading ;D
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Oct 31, 2009 15:02:18 GMT
Sooo...how do you extend a circle?? Make its radius bigger??  What a load of bullstuff spin. In order: 1. From what the controllers on here say, it will NOT be more reliable except in the rare instances when all is going well. 2. I hope they manage to control pass. movements at ERD, and that all the rosters (stepping back etc) work in the real world (not just at weekends like now). 3. True but what about no clockwise trains from NHG etc. going beyond Padd.? Most Circle punters I suspect couldn't care less about more trains to Hamm. What's worse it only works as a poster if the full details are near enough to it for folks to read. Must have been written by a salesman who previously sold fridges to eskimos......  Seriously, I do hope it works - for the sake of those who have no option but to rely on it every day. But to advertise fewer delays and more reliable before it's been tested in anger just lays TfL open to ridicule if it all falls down in the first day or two. |
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Post by citysig on Oct 31, 2009 17:56:05 GMT
The poster and the leaflet are printed on paper. And has been said so many times in relation to this subject, it works very well. On paper.
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North End
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Post by North End on Nov 1, 2009 17:19:32 GMT
The poster and the leaflet are printed on paper. And has been said so many times in relation to this subject, it works very well. On paper. I love the way the text starts with "As part of the Transport for London investment programme". Why does *everything* nowadays have to be part of an investment programme? |
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Post by 21146 on Nov 1, 2009 17:47:07 GMT
The poster and the leaflet are printed on paper. And has been said so many times in relation to this subject, it works very well. On paper. I love the way the text starts with "As part of the Transport for London investment programme". Why does *everything* nowadays have to be part of an investment programme? Yes even all the work being done by Tube Lines under PPP with is nothing to do with TFL. Presumably the halting of the step-free access work on stations is part of the "Transport for London lack of lnvestment programme"? |
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Post by angelislington on Nov 2, 2009 0:29:12 GMT
Oh, the irony! I punched t-cup into Google. The top result is this - The Collective Unconscious Project... are T fL trying to tell us something? ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2009 14:50:01 GMT
t cup . pan handle , chip pan . extended circle , there have been many names for the new timetable lol, last weekend it was trialled once again , and it was a complete disaster .
the main stumbling block for this timetable in my opinion is edgware road . it becomes a bottleneck and completley screws everything up .
edgware road in its current form is not geared to take so many trains arriving departing and reversing . all it takes is one small delay due to a late/missed relief or a pick up or a delay on the line for whatever reason and the whole thing goes tits up with trains queueing from high st ken and beyond padd sub .
i have mentioned this on numerous occasions to our esteemed line general manager as have all of the drivers on the line but he is convinced that all will be well . i have also suggested to him that stepping back at edgware road would go a long way to remedy the situation .
unless managment sort out our new sheets which have been thrown back at them ( by all three ssl lines i might add ) then the date of dec 13th which is when the new timetable is due to start will not happen .
when the new timetable actually gets up and running , The current timetable will be locked in a safe somewhere in an office at baker strasse and if and when the new timetable deems totally unworkable , i have it on good authority that the old timetable will be brought back in again .
We have all been issued with feedback forms as regards the trials and we have all stated that it will not work unless changes are made . whether or not the powers to be that dreamt up this new way of upsetting customers and extending their journeys by making unnecessary changes with all their luggage up and down stairs will take on board what we have said and what they will do about it remains to be seen
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2009 16:00:22 GMT
all it takes is one small delay due to a late/missed relief or a pick up or a delay on the line for whatever reason and the whole thing goes tits up with trains queueing from high st ken and beyond padd sub . Yes, I was on that weekend and exactly this happened. A pickup was missed, no word from the DMT or Despatch Supervisor, and we came to a grinding halt very quickly indeed! As for our GM, I think anyone who has anything to do with the H&C has mentioned to him that it isn't working, but he just will not listen. I was quite annoyed that he sent out a letter deeming the last weekend of the trials " a total success!" As to the current timetable being locked away, we have been told that it will take up to 3 months before we can go back to the old timetable, although i think when the new one proves to be a disaster then the old will come back a lot quicker than that. I'm all for change for the better, but when everyone you talk to from all grades says the same thing and has experienced the same problems, it's pretty obvious where this timetable is going to end up. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2009 16:30:24 GMT
I have always had this feeling myself, people have asked me about the new one and I have replied "It won't last long, they'll bring back the old Circle line soon enough" don't want to get into a debate about being negative (as the hint as gone on another thread) but this is really what I think will happen due to the points mentioned above.
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Post by 21146 on Nov 2, 2009 16:46:07 GMT
I have visions of the "Covered Way" fiasco of c1996. No one resigned or got sacked over that either!
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Post by Chris M on Nov 2, 2009 16:46:37 GMT
As to the current timetable being locked away, we have been told that it will take up to 3 months before we can go back to the old timetable, although i think when the new one proves to be a disaster then the old will come back a lot quicker than that. It was only a couple of days before the temporary timetable for the covered way works between Gloucester Road and HSK was declared a complete and utter failure and scrapped wasn't it? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 2, 2009 17:16:07 GMT
It was only a couple of days before the temporary timetable for the covered way works between Gloucester Road and HSK was declared a complete and utter failure and scrapped wasn't it? Yes, it was! I remember the Wimbledon-Tower-Edgware Road C Stock service was quickly shortened to be Wimbledon-Mansion House, being crewed solely by the District. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2009 18:05:41 GMT
don't want to get into a debate about being negative (as the hint as gone on another thread). Maybe, but in this instance plenty of us have tried the new system and, negative or not, i haven't met any other member of staff with a good thing to say about it. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 2, 2009 22:03:15 GMT
New poster up on stations today and Leaflet in racks: note, River Thames on map and "correct at time of going to print 14 October 2009" which was, of course, before the latest "trial" weekend! Other interesting things on that map (all comparisons are against the Sept 2009 version): Bakerloo line between BSt and Padd now north of the Circle Line again. Maida Vale "tick" has changed sides. Edgware Rd (Bak) not shown as an interchange. Nor is Queens Park Latimer Road correctly shown east of the WLL, and Shepherds Busg interchange now shown with WLL below and to the right of Central. Imperial Wharf open, complete with wheelchair symbol KXSP no longer "International" On the September map both Shadwell and Canada Water are shown further to the left than Aldgate East, but on this extract, at the right hand margin, although Aldgate East is the last station shown on the District, the other two are missing off the edge. This suggests the ELL will appear in yet another form in the full map next month. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 2, 2009 22:19:32 GMT
t cup . pan handle , chip pan . extended circle , there have been many names for the new timetable lol, last weekend it was trialled once again , and it was a complete disaster . the main stumbling block for this timetable in my opinion is edgware road . it becomes a bottleneck and completley screws everything up . edgware road in its current form is not geared to take so many trains arriving departing and reversing . all it takes is one small delay due to a late/missed relief or a pick up or a delay on the line for whatever reason and the whole thing goes tits up with trains queueing from high st ken and beyond padd sub . i have mentioned this on numerous occasions to our esteemed line general manager as have all of the drivers on the line but he is convinced that all will be well . i have also suggested to him that stepping back at edgware road would go a long way to remedy the situation . unless managment sort out our new sheets which have been thrown back at them ( by all three ssl lines i might add ) then the date of dec 13th which is when the new timetable is due to start will not happen . when the new timetable actually gets up and running , The current timetable will be locked in a safe somewhere in an office at baker strasse and if and when the new timetable deems totally unworkable , i have it on good authority that the old timetable will be brought back in again . We have all been issued with feedback forms as regards the trials and we have all stated that it will not work unless changes are made . whether or not the powers to be that dreamt up this new way of upsetting customers and extending their journeys by making unnecessary changes with all their luggage up and down stairs will take on board what we have said and what they will do about it remains to be seen I have to say, I agree. When I first heard of the idea I was suprised if it would work. The main bottle neck is at Edgware Road. I'm sure that stepping back will be essential, but has it ever been done all day? Brixton perhaps? The other option for this service to work is to cut back the Wimbledon service to High Street Kensington. Leaving both platforms to reverse Circle Line trains. Could the T-cup service be run every 6 mins to cover the gap left by the loss of the District? Is 10tph not practical? |
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Post by superteacher on Nov 2, 2009 22:29:13 GMT
If it's obvious to the majority of people who don't work on LU, then quite why it isn't obvious to managers who are supposed to know about railways, is totally beyond me.
I'm aware that certain senior members of TFL read this forum, so Mr. Circle and H&C Manager . . .
It won't work - simple, period.
I've never seen such a one sided discussion on this forum. Normally, there is healthy disagreement and debate. Not on this subject.
It amazes me that when drivers, who work on the line day in and day out, express their doubts in the way that they have, that managers do the ostrich things and bury their heads in the sand.
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Post by ruislip on Nov 2, 2009 23:12:54 GMT
After three months or so, will the "original" Circle service get reinstated if the T-Cup is as big a disaster as many are predicting it to be?
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