Tube stock car number list

[Deleted]

Here is a list I have put together of the various tube stock cars. There are some missing, like the 1949 stock and the earlier cars.
Any comments would be welcome!
Surface stock to follow soon!
www.geocities.com/jsp3970/LUTubeStock

[mandgc]

Phew ! - Wait till I get my breath back ! :-)

[mandgc]

1949 (new ) 'Birmingham " Stock -

30022 - 30045 'A' End UNDMs
31000 - 31045 'D' End UNDMs.

[Deleted]

Thanks guys, have added the 1949 stock to the list!

[Deleted]

Have added the list for surface stock.
www.geocities.com/jsp3970/LUSurfaceStock
It is missing the B, C, D, E stocks and any former MET stock cars renumbered.

[Colin]

Slight error in there - C stock cars 6501-6606 & 6701-6733 are not DM's. They are trailers (though have the facility to be driven and couple).

[Deleted]

colin said:

Slight error in there - C stock cars 6501-6606 & 6701-6733 are not DM's. They are trailers (though have the facility to be driven and couple).

Thanks for pointing that out.
It was a cut and paste error where I didn't change DM to T.

[Deleted]

Thanks Hindenburg, I will add the info to the list.
I understand that the B stock converted to trailers became H stock, what about the C, D, and E stock?
As for confusing, yes it is and I am sorry. I had a problem putting it together myself and am looking for a way to make it better to read. I think I will have to change it to being by stock and not number.

[Phil]

barney said:

I have a picture of a 4 car 'H' stock leaving Surrey Docks on a very hot day with every door on the train wide open! Including cab doors. It was not uncommon apparently for trains of 'H' stock to run like this even in tunnels but running like that down the hole was discouraged. At least where offside doors were concerned.

Something like this you mean

[Deleted]

Thanks.
Just wondering how did they classify the ex MET stock. With the exception of the T stock I don't think any of them were given letters so how did they do it?

[tubeprune]

jsp3970 said:

Thanks.
Just wondering how did they classify the ex MET stock. With the exception of the T stock I don't think any of them were given letters so how did they do it?

They were classified by the Metropolitan Railway as train sets, e.g. W Stock, MW Stock, MV Stock, V Stock, VT Stock and others I can't remember off the top of my head. The Circle was normally run with a separate block of trains, and so was the H & C. The stock type letters were used in the WTT. Sets within each type of stock could also have different types of electrical equipment which didn't usually work with other types and different motor ratings which also separated the stocks.

The "T" classification was only adopted some time after LT took over the Metropolitan in 1934, I think about 1939.

[Deleted]

tubeprune said:

They were classified by the Metropolitan Railway as train sets, e.g. W Stock, MW Stock, MV Stock, V Stock, VT Stock and others I can't remember off the top of my head. The Circle was normally run with a separate block of trains, and so was the H & C. The stock type letters were used in the WTT. Sets within each type of stock could also have different types of electrical equipment which didn't usually work with other types and different motor ratings which also separated the stocks.

The "T" classification was only adopted some time after LT took over the Metropolitan in 1934, I think about 1939.

I have heard of some of those classification, although I don't know them all. Did the LPTB carry these classes over after they took over the MET?

[mandgc]

Met Stock - Some further comments.

2598 & 2599. These were the forerunners of the T stock Motors. Though they had saloon bodies they had the equipment comartment behind the Driver.

6557 - This car was built in 1924 especially for display at the British Empire Exhibition in 1924. In LT days it formed a 3 car Unit (with 2598/9 ) for use on the ELR and all 3 were withdrawn about 1946.

2768 & 2769 - These were rebuilt with compartment bodies and cabs at each end for use as Shuttles, by the Metro. company, in 1910 on the underframes of collision damaged 1905 saloons. . 2768 was withdrawn in Feb.1938 and 2769 in 1942.

After 1933 LT declared that Saloon vehicles would be known as 'Cars', MU Compartments as 'Coaches' and Loco hauled stock as 'Carriages' .

The notes for the Control Trailers and Trailers in the lists could perhaps be amplified. Those shown as built in 1920 and 1923 were built as 'Steam Stock' (hauled) carriages and were converted for use in the MU trains in various batches between 1927 and 1939.

[tubeprune]

jsp3970 said:

I have heard of some of those classification, although I don't know them all. Did the LPTB carry these classes over after they took over the MET?

Not officially. They began using letters for stock builds on the District about 1927. This referred to cars accorcing to build, not train sets. The Met system was replaced by the LU (LT) system as soon as new trains started appearing in 1937 (The O Stock).

The O Stock got its letter following the N Stock, the 1935 District order. As far as I can tell from my research, the earlier District letters were added retrospectively backwards from the 1927 K Stock.

[mandgc]

Met.Steam Stock converted to EMU Compartment Stock.

The carriages,after conversion were indeed incorporated in the 'T'Stock.
The entry"ex MV and MW Stock" could give the impression that they were built as such in 1920 and 1923.

[mandgc]

Tube stock List.

The 1903 and 1906 stock shown as 'Gate Stock' had of course been converted to Air Doors before receiving the 7XXX numbers.

I wonder about the 35, odd exCTs shown as 'used with 1938 Stock'. These were in addition to the 58 Trailers converted in 1939.

[Deleted]

mandgc said:

Tube stock List.

The 1903 and 1906 stock shown as 'Gate Stock' had of course been converted to Air Doors before receiving the 7XXX numbers.

I wonder about the 35, odd ex CTs shown as 'used with 1938 Stock'. These were in addition to the 58 Trailers converted in 1939.

The entries for the 1903 stock will be changed to 'Tunnel Stock', once I get the time to work on the tube stock list (I'm currently working on the surface stock list to make it less confusing).

91 CT's were renumbered into the 75xxx series when converted into trailers. But I believe these were never used with 1938 stock, despite what my list says. This was a mistake by me as I thought all Standard Stock numbered into the 70xxx and 75xxx were used with 1938 stock. But now I know different!

[mandgc]

This is the first time I have seen such extensive lists of LT stock numbers and I would like to thank 'jsp 3970' for the considerable time and effort he is putting into producing the list and to others who are contributing to them .

[Ben]

The metropolitan saloon car stock (excluding the Circle stock) was, according to the 'R Stock Story', classified as 'R' stock in 1940. However as withdrawl of this class was practically complete by then, it did not have time to catch on and the letter was subsequently reused.

[mandgc]

Metropolitan Trains taken over by LPTB,1933.

'Steam to Silver' (1970) shows the following taken over -

1--'Steam Stock' (Loco hauled)
2--3x 7 coach 'MV' stock (Vacuum braked) 1927 motors, converted Steam stock trailers.)
3--12x 8 coach 'MW' stock ( Became 'T'Stock)
4--5x 'W' trains. ( MW motors,Bogie trailers)
5--5x 8 coach 'VT' and
----3x 7 coach 'VT' stock (MW motors,saloon trailers)
6 1x 8 car 'S' stock (2 special 1925 saloon motors and 6 1919 'Hustle train' trailers.)
7--12x 7 car 'V' stock ( Original saloon cars)
8--2x 8 coach 'M'stock (Bogie stock motors and trailers)
9--2x 4 coach 'N' stock) (Bogie stock motors and trailers)
10--23x 6car H&C stock (20 original and 3 Met. saloon trains.)
11--18x 5car trains used on Circle Service (Not all became LT's Circle stock)

(The 'Bogie stock" is the so called Ashbury stock of c1900 that was built as Loco.hauled stock, converted to EMU Motors and Trailers and six of which finished up as the Chesham Push and Pull sets.)

[Deleted]

benedict said:

The metropolitan saloon car stock (excluding the Circle stock) was, according to the 'R Stock Story', classified as 'R' stock in 1940. However as withdrawl of this class was practically complete by then, it did not have time to catch on and the letter was subsequently reused.

Thats one of the books I would like to get, 'The R Stock Story'.
The one page I did see talked about an H stock trailer, but I think they were talking about an L stock as the number given was 8812. Unless everything was redesignated H stock before they were rebuilt into Q stock!

[Ben]

Its a good book, I highly recomend it. It retails for £2.75, the only thing I find annoying is the lack of colour pictures. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the CO/CP stock story (closely related)?

[Phil]

jsp3970 said:

Unless everything was redesignated H stock before they were rebuilt into Q stock!

Correct! The reclassifying to Q represented powered doors. To avoid confusion with marshalling, all the rest became H (for handworked) stock for a while until conversions were complete. Sorry, dates and numbers not handy.

[Deleted]

benedict said:

Its a good book, I highly recomend it. It retails for £2.75, the only thing I find annoying is the lack of colour pictures. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the CO/CP stock story (closely related)?

Retails from where? I thought it was out of print! Its not available in Canada.
Colour photos don't bother me, I can remember what the colours were! Although I have always wondered what one would look like in the current scheme.

[Deleted]

rbruce1314 said:

Correct! The reclassifying to Q represented powered doors. To avoid confusion with marshalling, all the rest became H (for handworked) stock for a while until conversions were complete. Sorry, dates and numbers not handy.

So just to make sure I understand this everything became H stock, B, C, D, E, G, K, L, M, N until they were converted. Did the F stock remain F stock (as it was not compatible)?

[Phil]

From my information that's exactly right, though stock books such as the Ian Allen ones of the 50s still referred to them by their original classes. And of course B,C D and E never did get converted, hence the prolonging of handworked doors until they were withdrawn in the 50s. It seems that in 1939 there were 97 power cars and 91 trailers of H stock.

And F stock remained as such - it too was converted to air doors at some stage but retained the classification (incompatible as you say).

[mandgc]

Surface Stock -

The 'F' stock was fitted with Air Doors in 1938. Before transfer to the Uxbridge Line in 1951 the stock was again overhauled and aluminium doors fitted.
The stock was withdrawn from the Uxbridge and East London lines in 1963.

'M'Stock - On introduction in 1936 this stock was fitted with EP brakes and Air doors. It ran on the Hammersmith and City line after the extension from Whitechapel to Barking. The Ms were transfered to the District line when displaced by the 'O' stock and the EP brakes and Air doors were disconnected as the cars were to work in Hand Worked trains. The EP Brakes and Air Doors were reinstalled on the introduction of the 'R' stock to enable the cars to work in 'Q' stock trains.

[Deleted]

Anybody know the numbers for the pre-production 2009 cars that have been built?

[mandgc]

HW Door Train in Reply # 35.

Where was it taken ? - and is it the front or rear of the train ? It seems to be running Wrong Road with the Tail Lamp still in place. :-)

[Deleted]

Ok, have finished sorting the lists out so that it hopefully makes sense to anyone reading it.
Have also created a main page to aid in navigation.
As usual any comments are welcome!
www.geocities.com/jsp3970/LURollingStock.html