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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2013 19:47:33 GMT
Will the Northern line get RTD indicators like on the Jubilee which will light up 11 seconds before the train departs? Yes. Some of them are live already in the NMA1-3 areas and some are running a bit late and will be commissioned shortly. I see that almost the entire Northern line is closed on the weekend of 23rd/24th November. Rather inconvenient with 13 major events in London on the Saturday alone me thinks! A lot of planning goes into choosing dates for closures but sometimes clashes are unavoidable given the number of events in London. It is the last opportunity to have the closure before the usual no closure period running up to Christmas and it is only a Saturday closure now so just one day. Also there is only due to be one more closure of this size as part of commissioning the new signalling. |
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Post by Tomcakes on Nov 10, 2013 20:25:18 GMT
I have noticed in the last week there have been delays in the run up to Euston N.B. every day, presumably due to the change over process there. However, higher speeds are evident once in the automatic section.
I look forward to the end of the closures which have been endured for the last few years. As for inconvenience to passengers, I think passengers are viewed as an inconvenience by those who plan closures!
A few weeks ago there was a gap approaching 1 hour in the replacement bus service to Barnet - ostensibly half the buses going to Finchley, the other half to Barnet. A bus inspector directed everyone to a LUL employee (agency I think) who directed everyone to the bus inspector! No information or news or apology, more to the point nobody to tell one of the Finchley drivers to go full-route. (in their defence it turned out that the bus inspector worked for Metronet who often run the replacement service, but this weekend Sullivans were).
As an aside, I asked an assistant if there were any through trains "to the West End branch". I was told that there was no such branch on the Northern line!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2013 20:53:43 GMT
I have noticed in the last week there have been delays in the run up to Euston N.B. every day, presumably due to the change over process there. However, higher speeds are evident once in the automatic section. I look forward to the end of the closures which have been endured for the last few years. As for inconvenience to passengers, I think passengers are viewed as an inconvenience by those who plan closures! The changeover should be achievable in the dwell time in the platform so should not be causing a delay at all but at most it will be a few seconds. Usually if there is a hold-up it is that the trains are being held to time to even out headways by the new system at Euston. On your second point this is completely incorrect. Closures are planned so as to minimise the impact on customers. A number of the Northern line closures have been scaled back substantially to reduce the impact. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2013 16:14:13 GMT
Agree with tridentalx here, TfL have gotten much better at minimising the inconvenience from engineering works. Or maybe it is because they took over planning from Tubelines. I live in Finchley so it can be a pain when the line is closed, but I lived on the Isle of Dogs for six months while the Jubilee upgrade was underway and it was 100 times worse. It was closed almost every weekend, often with the DLR closed too! If it wasn't for the riverboat I wouldn't have gone anywhere at the weekend for the whole period!
With the northern upgrade, TfL have reduced the number of closures significantly. For those of us out in the styx they've been careful to coordinate so that other nearby lines (e.g Piccadilly) are running on weekends where the northern isn't. Having said that, I'm glad the whole high barnet branch is now done!
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Post by Tomcakes on Nov 13, 2013 20:26:51 GMT
I shall rephrase - I grant that selecting the weekends is doubtless a difficult task. There were a few weekends when the Northern was closed and the football was on at Arsenal etc which was a pain, though presumably the scheduling of football fixtures is done after the closure is decided.
My point mainly was the provision of replacement buses. I found poor attitudes of some replacement bus "information" staff who made things up as they went along and, when asked a difficult question, pleaded ignorance. Provision of a bus inspector from the appropriate firm at termini and proper information would have gone a long way. Plus a reminder that passengers are being inconvenienced by using a replacement bus - several seemed to act as if they were doing everyone a great favour by running a bus! On occasion rail replacement services were worked to go to Arnos Grove which, although convenient for passengers to/from town, removed a link for those going to stations further down the branch.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 15:17:06 GMT
While on the topic of replacement buses (which are definitely not 'rail equivalent' buses - service interval for one), there needs to be allowance for travel on equivalent local buses for the same fare.
All very well having Arnos grove as diversion route, but then allow us to complete journey by local bus for FREE (i.e. not an additional oyster change), rather than having to go by rail replacement to Finchley and then on to local services. The 251 from Arnos would be much more convenient for me, yet I have on a number of occasions (on principle of not wanting to pay more) had to go round the houses to Finchley, only to then get on a train northbound... Complete inconvenience and lack of joined up thinking.
Agree with the comment on bus dispatchers. Generally useless in terms of knowing service intervals or giving timely info (Kentish Town ‘High Barnet bus in literally two minutes’ .... bus arrives going only to Archway, and then next ... with no explanation). Redeploy the station staff to advise passengers. I don’t know where they drag up these (presumably agency) bus dispatchers from, but I’m totally unimpressed.
Rant Over. 412
EDITED - more common spelling of 'Buses' in response to feedback.
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Post by superteacher on Nov 14, 2013 16:27:34 GMT
While on the topic of replacement busses (which are definitely not 'rail equivalent' busses - service interval for one), there needs to be allowance for travel on equivalent local busses for the same fare. All very well having Arnos grove as diversion route, but then allow us to complete journey by local bus for FREE (i.e. not an additional oyster change), rather than having to go by rail replacement to Finchley and then on to local services. The 251 from Arnos would be much more convenient for me, yet I have on a number of occasions (on principle of not wanting to pay more) had to go round the houses to Finchley, only to then get on a train northbound... Complete inconvenience and lack of joined up thinking. Agree with the comment on bus dispatchers. Generally useless in terms of knowing service intervals or giving timely info (Kentish Town ‘High Barnet bus in literally two minutes’ .... bus arrives going only to Archway, and then next ... with no explanation). Redeploy the station staff to advise passengers. I don’t know where they drag up these (presumably agency) bus dispatchers from, but I’m totally unimpressed. Rant Over. 412 A fair rant. Although can I have a light hearted rant - please spell BUSES correctly!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by jswallow on Nov 14, 2013 19:08:01 GMT
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Post by superteacher on Nov 14, 2013 19:40:11 GMT
Not to me it isn't, and I'd always correct a child who spelt it with double s. There are lots of so called alternative spellings in the official dictionary which have come about through people spelling words incorrectly, which have subsequently crept into everyday use. I'm aware than languages evolve over time, but do we also accept "wot" for "what" because of its use in text message speak? Sorry for the off topic post! EDIT: Busses was the original spelling which has been out of favour for well over a century now. |
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 15, 2013 3:03:31 GMT
Very uncomfortable ride between Euston and Angel this morning. Agree with the other posts about the jerkiness of it all. I suppose you can please some of the sardines some of the time............... |
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 15, 2013 3:28:24 GMT
Not to me it isn't, and I'd always correct a child who spelt it with double s. There are lots of so called alternative spellings in the official dictionary which have come about through people spelling words incorrectly, which have subsequently crept into everyday use. I'm aware than languages evolve over time, but do we also accept "wot" for "what" because of its use in text message speak? Sorry for the off topic post! EDIT: Busses was the original spelling which has been out of favour for well over a century now. I'm with you Superteacher, quite honestly there is some appalling spelling seen in this place. As for internet references to the Queen's English there is none truly valid but the OED. Popular UK English, as I choose to call it, has been so adulterated over the years by words, sayings, phrases and spelling from around the world where written and spoken English is simply different from Queen's English to the extent that our local dialects have all but disappeared to be replaced by 'Americanisms', 'Aussie speak' etc. To be honest I am not bothered by the introduction of new words into spoken English but standards for the written word should be maintained. In that regard the OED allows a proportion of new words to be accepted year by year and so the official language grows and develops over time in an orderly way. As for 'busses' that is an electrical term for common connexions, 'connexions' being the correct spelling of the electrical term, which seems to have fallen into disuse in recent years, probably due in no small part to school leavers having learnt little of the written word. Don't be sorry for the off topic post, it is relevant throughout this place. While I can understand those who were perhaps never taught to spell I cannot understand the repeat offenders who fail to learn from others who post correctly. Uv corse tis ezy tooby lazee innit n kno wun cairs iver! |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 15, 2013 8:06:13 GMT
"Bus" is a plural noun like dice (singular "die") or seraphim ("seraph")
It is an abbreviation of "Omnibus", the dative or ablative plural of the third declension "omnis" (masculine)or "omne" (feminine):
Thus, for a pedant, you can have any number of bus except one - which is the experience of many bus users.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 9:49:16 GMT
O/T.
OK, OK, I've edited the spelling!!
Yep, spelling is one of my weaknesses, I tend to put all posts through Word spellcheck before posting (also to pickup on typos). I'm pleased to say a recent paper in a scholarly journal came back from the journal proof reader with NO spelling errors and a couple of minor grammatical points. Well chuffed woz I (but not as much as getting the thing published in the first place...).
END O/T, back to TBTC, TTFN UFN.
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 16, 2013 5:11:07 GMT
"Bus" is a plural noun like dice (singular "die") or seraphim ("seraph") It is an abbreviation of "Omnibus", the dative or ablative plural of the third declension "omnis" (masculine)or "omne" (feminine): Thus, for a pedant, you can have any number of bus except one - which is the experience of many bus users. Being a pedant myself, as they say on Catchphrase "it's good but it's not right!". I do not contest the Latin but English word 'omnibus' is both a noun and an adjective, it is from the latter, which means 'including','pertaining to' or 'dealing with' more than one, that 'bus' is derived. In Queen's English 'omnibus' is not a plural word such as cannon (cannon being one or more cannon, although billiard players pluralise it). |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 15:30:10 GMT
Will the Northern line get RTD indicators like on the Jubilee which will light up 11 seconds before the train departs? If you mean the white "train ready to depart" lights there is one on the southbound platform at kings x |
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 17, 2013 5:05:17 GMT
Will the Northern line get RTD indicators like on the Jubilee which will light up 11 seconds before the train departs? If you mean the white "train ready to depart" lights there is one on the southbound platform at kings x What controls train RTD indicators and how is the quoted 11 seconds arrived at? |
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Post by jamesb on Nov 17, 2013 10:59:27 GMT
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 17, 2013 14:31:54 GMT
Thanks for that, it rather looks as though train RTDs are actually driven off the signalling so they don't necessarily mean that the train is ready to depart but rather that the signalling is ready for the train to depart! In other words something more akin to a green light being displayed rather than a driver pushing a plunger to say s/he is ready to depart. |
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Post by domh245 on Nov 17, 2013 16:39:25 GMT
Yes, that is what it looks like, 11 seconds would give about enough time for a CSA to realise the light is on, say "This train is about to depart, mind the doors" and then allow the T/Op to close the doors and hit the start buttons, by which time the signalling system will have locked the route, assuming that the light comes on before the route is locked for that train (That is my understanding of it)
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Post by superteacher on Nov 17, 2013 17:31:00 GMT
On the Central line, the platform DMI's show "Mind the Doors" when the train is ready to depart. These are definitely driven by the signalling system, so I suspect it is similar on other ATO lines.
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Post by jamesb on Nov 17, 2013 19:03:12 GMT
Am I right in saying that the northern / jubilee line signalling is able to control the trains to a defined timetable, which is different to the central line?
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Post by domh245 on Nov 17, 2013 19:06:48 GMT
Yes, I think that a train can be held in a platform or made to run slower to keep to a timetable, whilst the central line is like a more sophisticated version of the current system where once you've got authority to proceed, the train will accelerate to line speed and stay there until it can't go any further.
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Post by superteacher on Nov 17, 2013 20:50:26 GMT
Yes, I think that a train can be held in a platform or made to run slower to keep to a timetable, whilst the central line is like a more sophisticated version of the current system where once you've got authority to proceed, the train will accelerate to line speed and stay there until it can't go any further. The Central line system does have the ability to hold trains in platforms until their departure time. It also has a coasting facility, but I don't know whether it has ever been used. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 18:11:50 GMT
Hi tridentalx,
you mentioned that the date for NMA4 was to be announed toward the end of Nov... wondered if we could tap you for your insiders info again?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 21:03:42 GMT
Hi tridentalx, you mentioned that the date for NMA4 was to be announed toward the end of Nov... wondered if we could tap you for your insiders info again? Mid to late January is the target date but still not 100% certain. Could be a few weeks later (still well ahead of contract date though). |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 9:18:44 GMT
Thanks.
Am curious to get other's opinions on post signalling upgrade. So this is fairly loaded: post Camden re-jig, Bank capity enhancment and tph. I've read it could be as high as 32... Does this seem likely or should the prospect be resigned to RIPAS?
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Post by londonstuff on Dec 9, 2013 10:29:15 GMT
Thanks. Am curious to get other's opinions on post signalling upgrade. So this is fairly loaded: post Camden re-jig, Bank capity enhancment and tph. I've read it could be as high as 32... Does this seem likely or should the prospect be resigned to RIPAS? Just by comparison with the Vic - if they can sort out Camden eventually so that it's just end-to-end running rather than with different branches they'd surely be able to run 32tph or close to it. Certainly needed on the city branch. Parts of the track in Zone 1 don't seem ideal for such high-capacity running though. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 27, 2013 16:20:09 GMT
Hi tridentalx, you mentioned that the date for NMA4 was to be announed toward the end of Nov... wondered if we could tap you for your insiders info again? NMA4 is due to go live for passenger use from Monday 20 January. This will extend the area of ATO, to: Oval-Chalk Farm/High Barnet via both branches. Over the weekend of 18/19 January trains will run empty through the new area to test that all is correct ready for revenue service. Empty operations will be: Stockwell-Angel/Euston CX. Trains will operate at their usual weekend frequency. The Waterloo & City Line will run every 6mins from 1000-1900 on Sunday 19 January. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2013 12:18:25 GMT
What's the difference between the ATO system that the northern and jubilee are/will be operating and the one recently installed on the Victoria?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 12:31:06 GMT
Well the Northern and Jubilee lines use the same ATO system whilst the Victoria runs on a newer seltrac system so quite similar to the central but more of a Distance To Go kind of ATO.
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