Vivarail's 'D Train' - 'D' stock reborn

[alpinejohn]

So end January 2024 is fast approaching, and apart from a few bits of rail at West Ealing the GWR trial does not seem to be "about" to begin. I guess a fairly slow a cautious approach is only to be expected, so a few months delay is not going to be the end of the world.

However in the photo above in the thread appears to show a fairly short gap between the two sets of charging rails.

I am pretty sure that when 230001 last operated in Scotland it ran as a 3 car unit which meant they were able to carry a heap of extra batteries carried beneath the middle car and this meant a fair bit extra range.

As some of the Greenford shuttle platforms are only long enough to accommodate 2 car units, presumably GWR will have no option but to remove the middle trailer car and then make whatever cabling and control adjustments are required to create a 2 car unit - presumably in DM/DM format. (Driving Motor car+Driving Motor Car). The obvious downside is the range between charges may be reduced. Even if the range is halved it should still be ample for several West Ealing/Greenford return trips. and if the fast charging system delivers reliably each time the driver swaps ends at West Ealing - it should still keep the charge level sufficient for a full day operation.

Presumably GWR will want to arrange some test runs of the 2 car format unit based on Reading or Long Marston before anything actually moves to West Ealing?

[anthony262]

Mainline testing due to start in February before the unit moves to Reading depot. Theres a good presentation on the project on.youtube if you search for Greenford battery train.

Think they've said the 3 carriage unit will fit

[d7666]

Quoting from a.n.other forum

Mainline testing (Long Marston - Honeybourne - Moreton in Marsh) now planned for Mon/Weds/Fri of w/c 5th Feb, Mon/Weds of w/c 12th Feb, followed by the move to Reading TCD on Friday 16th Feb. Then a move from Reading to West Ealing w/c 26th Feb.

[spsmiler]

In the meantime, as we know, things have not been going well for the 230's in Wales. However when looking at Bidston station on Real Time Trains yesterday I saw information suggesting that at least two 230's had been running (that was Tuesday 30th Jan 2024)

This is very relevant for me as I've booked a day trip to Merseyside next week and whilst there am planning to visit Bidston in the hope of at least seeing a 230.

[anthony262]

Tfws 230s seem.to be getting their act together. One of their staff said on one of the Facebook groups said 230010 did a full days service instead of swapping over at 1230 like usual.

Tfws 230s are the batteries getting too hot. Sort that problem out znd you should get a lot of the issues out of the way

[anthony262]

230001 been out on test today . Good video of it on YouTube.

Stadler and TFW seem to have got their class 230s to start behaving themselves

[spsmiler]

Oh good, as I'll be visiting Bidston tomorrow (6th Feb) and hope to see at least one there. Not sure if I'll get a ride in it however, as my Merseyrail ticket wont be valid.  

[rincew1nd]

A Merseytravel All Zone SaveAway is valid on all trains and busses on Merseyside including the Borderlands line up to the country boundary. It's also valid on selected trains is Cheshire (Zone G) and Lancashire (Zone F):



Buying a Heswall to Chester single means you can so a nice loop.

[spsmiler]

I had a rail only day saver


It was very difficult at Bidston. Not just with the rain on my camera lens but two 230 trains at the same time - I did not know which way to point my camera as the island platform was too wide for decent views of them both at the same time!

Then the guard of the train enterimg service said I had 2 minutes if I wanted to look inside .... I took up her offer!

Afterwards i was just about able to get to see blue grey 507001 on the Northern line to Southport.

Photos to vome, most likely Wednesday as I am still on the Avanti train to Euston and its running late after a long station stop at Crewe

[spsmiler]

Photos published in Tweets

I checked Real Time Trains, the journey 230 008 was making was its last for the day. At Bidston it went 'ecs' to the depot. So arriving 7 minutes early was not a problem to the passengers, its just that I had not expected it and was caught unawares. apologies for the wet blob in the photo.

The first tweet has still images from video

[DWS]

Nice to see the photos of trains that I used to travel on in London during my employment on London Underground, thanks Simon

[Dstock7080]

[anthony262]

230001 due to head to Reading depot shortly. Think they gotta charge it up first. Test runs getting good feedback. Getting 70 miles between charges with energy still left over in the batteries

[d7666]

Jan 27, 2024 12:03:43 GMT alpinejohn said:

As some of the Greenford shuttle platforms are only long enough to accommodate 2 car units, presumably GWR will have no option but to remove the middle trailer car and then make whatever cabling and control adjustments are required to create a 2 car unit -
.....................
Presumably GWR will want to arrange some test runs of the 2 car format unit based on Reading or Long Marston before anything actually moves to West Ealing?

Some gen on this has been posted on another forum - on UK Rail Forums - that explains how GWR run 3car; a question was put there why 230001 now has "crew only" doors and the answer to this yields how they do 3car :

Why is there a “crew only” door at either end, in addition to the cab doors?

It's all a quirk of fate really. The 230 normally has 8 doors per car except if there's a toilet in one of the cars, in which case it's 7 doors per car (one of them is blocked up where the toilet module goes). The middle car of 230001 was built to demonstrate how you could, if you wanted to, block off 4 out of 8 doors to give more seating.
230001 consists of 2 x Driving Motor (DM) cars, with 8 doors each, and the middle car with only 4 doors (and a toilet).

Then when it came to adapting 230001 for the GWR Greenford branch, because the train is just too long for some of the platforms, but they wanted to keep the toilet, then the outermost passenger doors had to been removed from passenger service, in other words the normal door buttons have been removed and labels applied to say 'crew only door' etc, but having said that they can still be used for emergency escape.

If you were starting from scratch, you probably wouldn't design it that way. In fact you may not bother with a toilet on the train (runs for cover.....) and therefore only have a 2-car rather than a 3-car train. But it's all a bit academic because 230001 is what GWR have got and it's only a trial of the battery charging technology so it's not a total commitment to future 230s being like that (if that happens, which is not certain).

3car 230001 works then.

Not that much different than what would be SDO anywhere else, except this case the end doors are permanently blocked to passengers .

[alpinejohn]

An earlier post on this thread mentioned a GWR presentation to the IMEE about the Greenford branch Fast Charging Trial which has been available on YouTube since last November. -

Suffice to say I had missed this video completely, but having now watched it twice, it is perhaps worth noting that it contained several observations which may help understand where this trial might lead.

First and foremost the Greenford trial is not really about demonstrating the Class 230 rolling stock, it is actually about testing and proving the fast charging solution which had been developed by VivaRail, and which GWR subsequently purchased the intellectual property rights to (along with sundry other stuff) from the VivaRail administrators. In turn that purchase was funded by D/Transport who doubtless might be interested in its wider availability beyond the GWR network.

Also despite some earlier negotiations with UK rail regulators (RSSB) and other initiatives by VivaRail, thus far the former VivaRail Fast Charging system has not been endorsed as a UK wide standard. Hopefully this trial will move things along but currently it seems a fair way off being endorsed as such.

The presentation highlighted an important component of the project which I had not come across before. Namely the development and testing by VivaRail of the BTNS (Battery Train Network Simulator). Basically it allows operators to accurately calculate and model how much energy is left in each train as it works through its day.

As appropriate the system can be manually or automatically tweeked to account for expected loadings, and different driving styles. It seems getting drivers to trust regenerative braking to deliver the majority of any braking is an important factor in range.

The system also automatically takes into account expected hotel load (heating/AC) reflecting observed outside temperature inputs and only assumes a degraded battery capacity typical of that expected after 10 years use - so for most of its life trains will still have a fair bit of reserve capacity.

BTNS can then determine how often and how much charging time is actually be required to ensure the train has ample capacity to complete its next expected duty cycle, plus adequate reserve capacity to cover unforseen events be they a delay linked to the unit itself, or to delays due to other problems affecting the planned route. All the BTNS data has already been validated against previous test meaurement data, and will be further refined and validated with the 12 months data expected from the Greenford trial.

I suspect BTNS data will be of significant value not just to GWR but to any train manufacturers looking to offer battery trains in the UK.

The presentation also included maps showing that GWR have begun looking at the scope to extend the use of battery trains within the GWR network, and as maintainence facilities for the Greenford trial are being installed at Reading, they have so far focused on branch lines in the vicinity of Reading rather than more remote branches in Corawall. They believe that if all the Thames Valley routes went to battery powered units they would need a common fleet of 7 or 8 battery trains.

As they already have 230001 available this ideal would entail somehow providing a further 6 or 7 further battery trains. If we focus on 3 car Class 230 battery units, the big question is where would they come from?

The three former Marston Vale units are probably the best starting point although they were only created as 2 car units (23003-23005). The cabs have already been strengthened and interiors have already been extensively upgraded to modern rolling stock standards even including accessible toilet facilities. Major work would still be needed to replace the diesel engines, generators and fuel tanks from the under body rafts and install batteries, fast charging pick ups and associated control gear. Each modified unit also would need creation of a matching trailer car, so again is not a quick or cheap process.

Together with 230001 – the Greenford trial unit, you would then have a fleet of 4 units. The big question is where could further battery trains be created assuming GWR really want a common fleet. Perhaps the most obvious answer may be to buy and modify the TFW units which to be honest have not been super reliable on the Bidston line. I suspect TFW may be very happy to sell them.

After that I do not believe it credible that GWR would ever contemplate building further completely new Class 230 units despite the rolling stock inventory they inherited from the administrators. I suspect GWR would then go out to tender for new battery train stock built taking into account all the lessons learned from the class 230 trials as this would hopefully avoid some of the shortcomings of running Class 230s - like having to block off public use of the outermost doors because they do not have selective door control.

[anthony262]

I was the one who pointed out this presentation. I do think we might see more class 230 battery trains. TFW considering it for the proposed Swansea metro.


Well Hitachi have proposed a 4 carriage bimode unit so this technology could help GWR and manufacturers to build battery units. Could work on chilterns Marylebone to Aylesbury service perhaps



Mod edit [goldenarrow]: Quote removed. Please be selective about the part of a post you wish to quote rather than the whole post verbatim, particularly if you are replying to the previous post in the thread.

[spsmiler]

A short video where the trains can be seen and heard in action





Much went wrong when filming this - the train that came first was running early and I was looking in the opposite direction in anticipation of the other train. I had rainwater on my camera lens and some of the footage is somewhat unsteady. Also, the video editing software on my computer kept crashing when I was editing this footage

[anthony262]

No idea what the official reason is as ive heard a few different accounts but TFWs class 230s have been grounded by network rail so are not running at the moment

[Dstock7080]

news.gwr.com/news/great-western-railways-battery-train-sets-new-distance-record

Great Western Railway’s innovative FastCharge battery trial has achieved another significant step – just days after laying claim to a battery train UK distance record without recharging.

The train demonstrated its capability on Wednesday by travelling a UK record of 86 miles (138km) on battery power alone and without recharging.
Today the Class 230 battery train completed a 70-mile move from Long Marston to Reading Train Care Depot – using just 45 per cent of its battery capacity. GWR’s team of specialist engineers on board the train claim it could have travelled more than 120 miles on a single charge.

230.001 has arrived at Reading depot:

[anthony262]

The figures are certainly eye catching and has caught everyone by surprise.

[brigham]

Is the musical accompaniment to hide the fact that it still has the iconic sound of electric traction, which corporate types no doubt find embarrassing and 'dated'?

[phil]

Feb 9, 2024 17:25:40 GMT alpinejohn said:

As they already have 230001 available this ideal would entail somehow providing a further 6 or 7 further battery trains. If we focus on 3 car Class 230 battery units, the big question is where would they come from?

The three former Marston Vale units are probably the best starting point although they were only created as 2 car units (23003-23005). The cabs have already been strengthened and interiors have already been extensively upgraded to modern rolling stock standards even including accessible toilet facilities. Major work would still be needed to replace the diesel engines, generators and fuel tanks from the under body rafts and install batteries, fast charging pick ups and associated control gear. Each modified unit also would need creation of a matching trailer car, so again is not a quick or cheap process.

Together with 230001 – the Greenford trial unit, you would then have a fleet of 4 units. The big question is where could further battery trains be created assuming GWR really want a common fleet. Perhaps the most obvious answer may be to buy and modify the TFW units which to be honest have not been super reliable on the Bidston line. I suspect TFW may be very happy to sell them.

After that I do not believe it credible that GWR would ever contemplate building further completely new Class 230 units despite the rolling stock inventory they inherited from the administrators. I suspect GWR would then go out to tender for new battery train stock built taking into account all the lessons learned from the class 230 trials as this would hopefully avoid some of the shortcomings of running Class 230s - like having to block off public use of the outermost doors because they do not have selective door control.

Why this assumption that further battery units have to be 230 stock?

OK I get there are potentially savings from being able to copy 230001 but lets face it converted D stock hasn't exactly been popular amongst train companies regardless of its propulsion message.

As stated several times the point of the Greenford trial is to test the Battery and fast charge technology - not the train!

A few years ago an Electrostar unit was given batteries and ran on the Harwich branch as a trial so its not as if it wouldn't be impossible to covert / fit something else with the fast charge technology  - particularity as I can see the DfT being keen to expand this technology to other lines around the UK in time (and something like an Electrostar with AC OLE capability is much more flexible in  that regard)

[35b]

Part of the assumption is that the transfer to GWR included a significant number of carriages. The design is well suited to short, self contained, branches and offers significant cost advantages over new build now that the product development work has been done.

Whether those branches are best served by trains that are effectively unusable off branch due to their restricted speed, and whether small fleets are the right long term solution, is a different question.

[starlight73]

230 001 started testing on the Greenford branch this week. Found it at West Ealing today, and I’ve uploaded a few more photos to Imgur

(This is my first post, so please edit if I’ve made any mistakes)

[rincew1nd]

Love the massive sign about what to do if it goes south.

[spsmiler]

Good photos, I would have also gone to see it but by the time that I learnt about it being there I had already made other arrangements for my time.

[starlight73]

Feb 29, 2024 23:24:20 GMT rincew1nd said:

Love the massive sign about what to do if it goes south.

Yes, very dramatic! I guess there have to be fire precautions with high currents and batteries!

Mar 1, 2024 12:04:26 GMT spsmiler said:

Good photos, I would have also gone to see it but by the time that I learnt about it being there I had already made other arrangements for my time.

Thank you

Incidentally it was making a whirring fan noise most of the time - roughly captured in these videos

[johnlinford]

It seems as much about electrocution risk as fire, but given it's a very new hazard for the area seems fair to give detailed warning incase station staff and members of the public aren't aware of the risk as they might be with a third rail system.

[Chris M]

While GWR train staff and West Ealing platform staff will I presume have been given at least basic safety training with regards the new system the same cannot be said for other staff. It may actually be more of an issue for any staff who are third (or fourth) rail trained as (AIUI) the way to get power turned off on those networks is to make an emergency call to the signaller or line controller (who will make an emergency call to the power control room) rather than to turn the power off themselves locally.

[Chris L]

Mar 2, 2024 0:19:34 GMT Chris M said:

While GWR train staff and West Ealing platform staff will I presume have been given at least basic safety training with regards the new system the same cannot be said for other staff. It may actually be more of an issue for any staff who are third (or fourth) rail trained as (AIUI) the way to get power turned off on those networks is to make an emergency call to the signaller or line controller (who will make an emergency call to the power control room) rather than to turn the power off themselves locally.

The charging rails are only live when the train is in position.