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Post by crusty54 on Aug 11, 2018 12:34:18 GMT
9 car trains out of Paddington have yet to be approved.
There are signalling issues in the airport tunnels which need to be resolved.
Testing is in progress.
Once the 9 car trains are approved for operation to/from Heathrow (and the bay road at Hayes & Harlington) the 7 car trains will return east and enable more 315s to be withdrawn.
If any 315s are running after 9th December they will need Elizabeth line roundels.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 13:01:16 GMT
There are two places where Crossrail and the Central Line run parallel - at Ealing Broadway and Stratford. At Ealing it also runs parallel with the District. The only place 717s will run parallel with LUL at the same level is at Highbury & Islington (not Finsbury Park - it's the Vic and Picc which are at the same level there) Between Royal Oak and Westbourne Park, Crossrail and the H&C are briefly at the same level as the former rises from the tunnel portal as the latter descends to the subway carrying it under the GWML. thanks for the info and Sorry for any non appropriate questions on the forum. I should perhaps have specified 'observation' from a public standpoint, i.e. Platform. Can I assume that the reference 'same level' @ Highbury & Islington is presumably below the surface ? and are the 717 services using new lines ? thanks |
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Post by silenthunter on Aug 11, 2018 19:38:52 GMT
717s will be using the existing Northern City Line plied by 313s.
Anyway, with c2c ordering 6 10-car Aventras to bolster their fleet, you might see a 345 sharing Liverpool Street High Level with one of them.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 11, 2018 21:21:16 GMT
Can I assume that the reference 'same level' @ Highbury & Islington is presumably below the surface ? and are the 717 services using new lines ? Yes (although northbound and southbound are at different levels) and No. At Moorgate and Old Street the NCL platforms are directly above the Northern Line, and at Moorgate they are at a similar level to the Circle. |
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Post by 35b on Aug 11, 2018 22:04:28 GMT
Can I assume that the reference 'same level' @ Highbury & Islington is presumably below the surface ? and are the 717 services using new lines ? Yes (although northbound and southbound are at different levels) and No. At Moorgate and Old Street the NCL platforms are directly above the Northern Line, and at Moorgate they are at a similar level to the Circle. Pardon? I must have imagined the escalators from NCL to Circle? Or are you thinking of the (now closed) Widened Lines platforms? |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 11, 2018 22:20:13 GMT
at Moorgate they are at a similar level to the Circle. Pardon? I must have imagined the escalators from NCL to Circle? Similar enough that during the Met's ownership of the line there was a plan to connect them. A new pedestrian access to Crossrail is now on the way of any southward extension. |
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Post by superteacher on Aug 11, 2018 22:34:05 GMT
The NCL platforms at Moorgate are a good 40 feet below the Met / Circle / H&C platforms. I’m struggling to see how they could ever be connected. Anyway, further to rincew1nd’s message, can we get back on topic.
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Post by A60stock on Aug 12, 2018 18:33:10 GMT
9 car trains out of Paddington have yet to be approved. There are signalling issues in the airport tunnels which need to be resolved. Testing is in progress. Once the 9 car trains are approved for operation to/from Heathrow (and the bay road at Hayes & Harlington) the 7 car trains will return east and enable more 315s to be withdrawn. If any 315s are running after 9th December they will need Elizabeth line roundels. I would presume that any 315 usage from 9th December would be very limited, as i dont know how many diagrams will run into Liverpool street high level? I believe the 315s cannot be used in the central section |
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Post by superteacher on Aug 12, 2018 18:35:34 GMT
9 car trains out of Paddington have yet to be approved. There are signalling issues in the airport tunnels which need to be resolved. Testing is in progress. Once the 9 car trains are approved for operation to/from Heathrow (and the bay road at Hayes & Harlington) the 7 car trains will return east and enable more 315s to be withdrawn. If any 315s are running after 9th December they will need Elizabeth line roundels. I would presume that any 315 usage from 9th December would be very limited, as i dont know how many diagrams will run into Liverpool street high level? I believe the 315s cannot be used in the central section The eastern section will not operate into the core until May 2019. |
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Post by silenthunter on Aug 12, 2018 18:37:56 GMT
9 car trains out of Paddington have yet to be approved. There are signalling issues in the airport tunnels which need to be resolved. Testing is in progress. Once the 9 car trains are approved for operation to/from Heathrow (and the bay road at Hayes & Harlington) the 7 car trains will return east and enable more 315s to be withdrawn. If any 315s are running after 9th December they will need Elizabeth line roundels. I would presume that any 315 usage from 9th December would be very limited, as i dont know how many diagrams will run into Liverpool street high level? I believe the 315s cannot be used in the central section They definitely can't; they wouldn't align with the platform edge doors. However, passengers services through the Stratford portal aren't due until May 2019, so everything from Shenfield will be going to Liverpool Street High Level.
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Post by A60stock on Aug 12, 2018 18:40:36 GMT
ah yes of course, i forgot that Shenfield doesn't get the through service until then! In that case, how many 315s would realistically even be around in may 2019?
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Post by crusty54 on Aug 12, 2018 20:23:06 GMT
ah yes of course, i forgot that Shenfield doesn't get the through service until then! In that case, how many 315s would realistically even be around in may 2019? It depends on the solution to the signalling issue in the Heathrow tunnels. 11 of the 7 car 345s should have been running on the Shenfield service before the end of last year. The through services from next May will be 9 car. The surface platforms at Liverpool Street will be extended to 9 car length after that (one platform lost in the process). |
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Post by gals on Aug 12, 2018 21:14:02 GMT
Saw a 9-car elizabeth line branded 345 this afternoon in stratford on Tfl Rail with Hayes and Harlington as its destination.
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Post by goldenarrow on Aug 12, 2018 21:18:33 GMT
Saw a 9-car elizabeth line branded 345 this afternoon in stratford on Tfl Rail with Hayes and Harlington as its destination. Will try to trace this to see if was a rouge destination or a genuine core tester. |
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Post by silenthunter on Aug 12, 2018 21:34:51 GMT
Only way to check would be to see if the barriers are still around the tunnel mouth at Stratford. They were on Friday.
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Post by goldenarrow on Aug 12, 2018 22:37:42 GMT
Only way to check would be to see if the barriers are still around the tunnel mouth at Stratford. They were on Friday. Saw a 9-car elizabeth line branded 345 this afternoon in stratford on Tfl Rail with Hayes and Harlington as its destination. Will try to trace this to see if was a rouge destination or a genuine core tester. Two services went down into the tunnels today passing Stratford and 08:17 and 08:38 respectively for Whitechapel and then hence to Paddington (Crossrail) before heading back to Abbey Wood. No services headed out West from the East today. |
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Post by xplaistow on Aug 12, 2018 23:45:19 GMT
Only way to check would be to see if the barriers are still around the tunnel mouth at Stratford. They were on Friday. Will try to trace this to see if was a rouge destination or a genuine core tester. Two services went down into the tunnels today passing Stratford and 08:17 and 08:38 respectively for Whitechapel and then hence to Paddington (Crossrail) before heading back to Abbey Wood. No services headed out West from the East today. That's a very interesing pice of information. Another step forward on the road to completion. As an aside, I happened to be travelling in from Stratford to Liverpool Street last Wednesday. As I was passing the portals, I'm fairly certain that I saw a pair of red tail lights belonging to a test train a short way into the westbound tunnel. |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 13, 2018 6:32:15 GMT
ah yes of course, i forgot that Shenfield doesn't get the through service until then! In that case, how many 315s would realistically even be around in may 2019? Many months ago I posted about the contractual delivery schedule for the 345s and the expected number of trains in service. districtdavesforum.co.uk/post/424230That should give some clue as to the number of trains, incl class 315s, planned to be in service. There will certainly be 315s running up to May 2019. Reality has somewhat diverged from the theoretical delivery schedule because of the slow introduction of units to service for reasons already stated in this thread. |
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Post by Chris W on Sept 21, 2018 15:52:38 GMT
Last Tuesday PM I passed the various depot sites at Old Oak Common and noted a plethora of Cl 345 all stabled on sidings where the original OOC depot site was located (site was levelled and has now been rebuilt as the Crossrail depot). I also noted 345 007 in service west of Paddington - this was a unit I have noted and used out of Liverpool St in the past.... Where are we up to now re deliveries and builds back in Derby [noting snoggle 's comments above] |
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Post by silenthunter on Sept 21, 2018 16:57:23 GMT
Last Tuesday PM I passed the various depot sites at Old Oak Common and noted a plethora of Cl 345 all stabled on sidings where the original OOC depot site was located (site was levelled and has now been rebuilt as the Crossrail depot). I also noted 345 007 in service west of Paddington - this was a unit I have noted and used out of Liverpool St in the past.... Where are we up to now re deliveries and builds back in Derby [noting snoggle 's comments above] I've asked TfL Rail why these are sitting around in the depot while we're still running around in Class 315s. |
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Post by jukes on Sept 21, 2018 18:13:06 GMT
Last Tuesday PM I passed the various depot sites at Old Oak Common and noted a plethora of Cl 345 all stabled on sidings where the original OOC depot site was located (site was levelled and has now been rebuilt as the Crossrail depot). I also noted 345 007 in service west of Paddington - this was a unit I have noted and used out of Liverpool St in the past.... Where are we up to now re deliveries and builds back in Derby [noting snoggle 's comments above] I've asked TfL Rail why these are sitting around in the depot while we're still running around in Class 315s. If they are 9-car units they can't be used on GE as LST platforms 16-18 are not long enough (yet). 4x(?)7-car sets are required temporarily for the Paddington-H&H shuttle till 9-car sets can a) run into LHR and b) NR declare H&H bay ready for 9-car ops. Till then only non-required 7-car sets can run on GE. |
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Post by crusty54 on Sept 21, 2018 18:16:04 GMT
Last Tuesday PM I passed the various depot sites at Old Oak Common and noted a plethora of Cl 345 all stabled on sidings where the original OOC depot site was located (site was levelled and has now been rebuilt as the Crossrail depot). I also noted 345 007 in service west of Paddington - this was a unit I have noted and used out of Liverpool St in the past.... Where are we up to now re deliveries and builds back in Derby [noting snoggle 's comments above] I've asked TfL Rail why these are sitting around in the depot while we're still running around in Class 315s. 7 car trains from the east are having to be used between Hayes & Harlington and Paddington. 9 car trains are awaiting approval for use on this service which should be running to and from Heathrow. However, 345s are unable to run to/from Heathrow until signalling issues have been resolved. This means 9 car trains are sitting in the depot. Testing of one train in the tunnel section has started but a second train is needed with all issues resolved. Not yet available. |
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Post by silenthunter on Sept 21, 2018 19:56:40 GMT
How long will it take to fix the signalling issues in the Heathrow approach.
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 21, 2018 22:14:19 GMT
How long will it take to fix the signalling issues in the Heathrow approach. Do you have any string to hand? |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 21, 2018 23:59:22 GMT
And in the meantime the 345’s are still experiencing daily issues, mainly with the doors. Is there something being done to address it, because after 15 months in service they shouldn’t be failing as often as they are.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 22, 2018 17:13:55 GMT
And in the meantime the 345’s are still experiencing daily issues, mainly with the doors. Is there something being done to address it, because after 15 months in service they shouldn’t be failing as often as they are. Based on informed comments elsewhere this is what I understand is happening. 1. Every 345 has a Bombardier technician on board. They investigate and log every fault. 2. Some of these investigations are what is causing the poor reliability numbers as minor incidents become "loggable" due to the extended duration. 3. All of the fault logging and investigation data is being reviewed by Bombardier to allow further design development / debugging / updated software. 4. The software effort is concentrated on refining the 9 car software, not the 7 car. Therefore until 9 cars can run you are not likely to see massive software based improvements. Being a bit brutal this makes sense given 7 car trains are an interim factor. I suspect the much delayed approval of the use of the Hayes bay platform for 9 car units and the problems with the core are a huge frustration for Bombardier, MTR and TfL because you really need to get real world experience with updated software builds. I also wonder whether the need to get 345s sorted is part of the reason for the 710's delays. There is only so much skilled resource around to interrogate fault data and create revised software. As ever happy to be corrected by those "more in the know" than my reading of comments in other places. |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 22, 2018 17:18:33 GMT
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but was It a mistake to fit them with plug doors?
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Post by Chris M on Sept 22, 2018 17:36:39 GMT
Is there any informed comment about the reason why H&H bay hasn't been approved for 9-car trains yet?
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Post by crusty54 on Sept 22, 2018 18:08:46 GMT
Is there any informed comment about the reason why H&H bay hasn't been approved for 9-car trains yet? The bay road can take 9 car trains. It was completed just before the 345s were introduced. However, Network Rail will not allow it to be used on the route until the Heathrow issues are resolved. This is because there would be nowhere to go if access to the bay road wasn't possible. |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 22, 2018 19:53:18 GMT
Is there any informed comment about the reason why H&H bay hasn't been approved for 9-car trains yet? The bay road can take 9 car trains. It was completed just before the 345s were introduced. However, Network Rail will not allow it to be used on the route until the Heathrow issues are resolved. This is because there would be nowhere to go if access to the bay road wasn't possible. What? Are they serious? TfL and MTR must be furious. If push came to shove surely a 9 car 345 could run to Maidenhead and use the new sidings there? Far from ideal I know but the Heathrow branch issues may not be resolved for ages yet given the collapse of the overall Crossrail programme and the impact that could have on GWR's cascade of stock to allow their takeover of HEX services. |
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