Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 22, 2018 20:02:38 GMT
Could the trains not reverse in the down goods loop west of H&H station is needed?
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Post by banana99 on Sept 22, 2018 22:56:26 GMT
Is there any informed comment about the reason why H&H bay hasn't been approved for 9-car trains yet? The bay road can take 9 car trains. It was completed just before the 345s were introduced. However, Network Rail will not allow it to be used on the route until the Heathrow issues are resolved. This is because there would be nowhere to go if access to the bay road wasn't possible. That is rather incredible. There must be a shunt move that can be performed after dumping passengers on P3? |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 22, 2018 23:24:31 GMT
The track layout certainly exists to allow a shunt move reversing on the down relief or in the goods loop. See carto metro or the last diagram in this document |
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Post by banana99 on Sept 22, 2018 23:53:59 GMT
The track layout certainly exists to allow a shunt move reversing on the down relief or in the goods loop. See carto metro or the last diagram in this documentExactly.  |
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Post by phil on Sept 23, 2018 11:03:38 GMT
The bay road can take 9 car trains. It was completed just before the 345s were introduced. However, Network Rail will not allow it to be used on the route until the Heathrow issues are resolved. This is because there would be nowhere to go if access to the bay road wasn't possible. That is rather incredible. There must be a shunt move that can be performed after dumping passengers on P3? The point is not that a shunt manoeuvrer cannot be made - but that you would completely foul up the GWR mainline while you did it!
The GWR relief lines (note they are not 'fast' and 'slow' like other companies used) are running at maximum capacity most of the time with very short headways between trains. Thus if you had to de-train everyone in the down relief line platform rather than the bay, then do the shunt move over to the up relief you would have to cancel or delay dozens of other services to do so!
Once again, please remember the GWML is NOT a tube line and the wants of London residents must take second fiddle to maintaining smooth operations for ALL operators.
If there was a 9 car length loop platform further west that could be used to turnback a 9 car 345 away from the main running lines then the problem wouldn't arise.
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Post by crusty54 on Sept 23, 2018 20:09:06 GMT
The bay road can take 9 car trains. It was completed just before the 345s were introduced. However, Network Rail will not allow it to be used on the route until the Heathrow issues are resolved. This is because there would be nowhere to go if access to the bay road wasn't possible. What? Are they serious? TfL and MTR must be furious. If push came to shove surely a 9 car 345 could run to Maidenhead and use the new sidings there? Far from ideal I know but the Heathrow branch issues may not be resolved for ages yet given the collapse of the overall Crossrail programme and the impact that could have on GWR's cascade of stock to allow their takeover of HEX services. MTR Crossrail drivers are not trained to run through to Maidenhead yet. |
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Post by kesmet on Sept 23, 2018 22:43:56 GMT
So - what happens today with 7-car trains? Have I missed something (quite possible), because I thought that they had the same signalling capabilities. So if a 7 car can't access the bay for whatever reason, where does it go?
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Post by banana99 on Sept 23, 2018 23:01:22 GMT
So - what happens today with 7-car trains? Have I missed something (quite possible), because I thought that they had the same signalling capabilities. So if a 7 car can't access the bay for whatever reason, where does it go? Exactly. Sounds like dozens of other services get delayed in the case of a points failure. So what's new? |
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Post by 2pintz on Sept 25, 2018 13:39:10 GMT
Does anyone know if there is any general update on the Heathrow acceptance of the 345s? Are the current weekend works related to testing? have they managed to get a train running in the tunnels yet (even if just manually or under restricted test conditions?)
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Post by silenthunter on Sept 25, 2018 14:14:12 GMT
What do you actually need for dynamic testing anyway?
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Post by crusty54 on Sept 25, 2018 19:59:44 GMT
Does anyone know if there is any general update on the Heathrow acceptance of the 345s? Are the current weekend works related to testing? have they managed to get a train running in the tunnels yet (even if just manually or under restricted test conditions?) Test trains have run into Heathrow at night. First one was about 2 months ago. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Sept 26, 2018 12:00:10 GMT
What do you actually need for dynamic testing anyway? There are countless pieces of kit making up every part of the railway that need to be put through their paces in real world conditions to iron any niggles or snags that may hinder the live passenger service. I can’t remember where I heard this, but I believe Crossrail has been built in the virtual world over five times to simulate everything construction methods, fit outs operations and future renewal works. Even with all this digital technology, things can still go wrong as Thameslink demonstrated in spectacular fashion and that did have facets of dynamic testing. Whilst it would be nice to think that Crossrail could just work with one flick of a switch, given how much the political world seems to be flogging every last atom of transport expertise form the industry at present, I think it would be best that Crossrail is allowed to go on testing so that they are satisfied themselves of the service capabilities. |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 26, 2018 13:43:30 GMT
What do you actually need for dynamic testing anyway? There are countless pieces of kit making up every part of the railway that need to be put through their paces in real world conditions to iron any niggles or snags that may hinder the live passenger service. I can’t remember where I heard this, but I believe Crossrail has been built in the virtual world over five times to simulate everything construction methods, fit outs operations and future renewal works. Even with all this digital technology, things can still go wrong as Thameslink demonstrated in spectacular fashion and that did have facets of dynamic testing. Whilst it would be nice to think that Crossrail could just work with one flick of a switch, given how much the political world seems to be flogging every last atom of transport expertise form the industry at present, I think it would be best that Crossrail is allowed to go on testing so that they are satisfied themselves of the service capabilities. To answer the original question - a largely complete, functioning railway is what you need. Crossrail is not there yet. It's there in parts but that's not enough for full testing. I am sure that the simulations / "virtual" builds have helped hugely but they don't account for things being wrongly specified / designed / installed / going bang. It takes a serious skill set to get a modern railway into service with negligible software / integration risks and it's very rare that it happens spot on time. Even MTR in Hong Kong, who had an enviable past record of achievement, have run into nightmarish problems on many of their recent projects including the South Island Line, West Rail, Shatin - City link and the recently opened high speed link into mainland China. Oddly construction problems are the biggest issue now whereas in the past that was usually completed with few issues. Crossrail seems to have got the main tunnelling works broadly right but has struggled with some station builds and has then been wrongfooted by elements of the fit out process. It now has to get system integration done and signed off in around 9 months. Bombardier also seem to be having issues getting their trains to behave properly on outside lines never mind talking to signalling and platform door systems in the tunnel section. I wonder what TfL really thinks about all this? |
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Post by silenthunter on Sept 26, 2018 15:02:47 GMT
So, you can't just bung the 345s through the tunnel?
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toby
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Post by toby on Sept 26, 2018 16:29:33 GMT
Neither tunnel, for different safety reasons. What do you mean by bung, what long term solution are you hinting at?
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Post by jukes on Sept 26, 2018 16:40:38 GMT
345s have been operating through the core in both directions but a service (even a shuttle) cannot be operated until all issues have been resolved. Even a 'bung shuttle' is out of the question. Don't forget that ORR will need to sign off on it and it's not there yet.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 26, 2018 18:10:44 GMT
AIUI only one train has operated in the tunnels at any one time.
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Post by silenthunter on Sept 26, 2018 18:56:04 GMT
Neither tunnel, for different safety reasons. What do you mean by bung, what long term solution are you hinting at? Bung in the sense of "do the dynamic testing now"... |
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Post by crusty54 on Sept 27, 2018 4:09:04 GMT
AIUI only one train has operated in the tunnels at any one time. Terry Morgan has stated that they don't have 2 trains that have the same updates that can run at the same time, |
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Post by silenthunter on Sept 27, 2018 7:56:36 GMT
This would have never happened with a Class 306...
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Post by silenthunter on Sept 27, 2018 19:44:48 GMT
This is the response to my query about why the trains were sitting in the depot:
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Post by 315 on Dec 8, 2018 11:14:07 GMT
Due to a delay in releasing the 9 car Class 345's for the PAD - HAY services in time for the introduction of the winter timetable, a number of diagrams the LST - SNF metros will remain as Class 315 until late January at the earliest.
Class 360's are also likely to remain on the PAD - HAF services until the later part of 2019.
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Post by superteacher on Dec 8, 2018 20:58:43 GMT
Due to a delay in releasing the 9 car Class 345's for the PAD - HAY services in time for the introduction of the winter timetable, a number of diagrams the LST - SNF metros will remain as Class 315 until late January at the earliest. Class 360's are also likely to remain on the PAD - HAF services until the later part of 2019. How many 315 diagrams is this likely to be? |
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Post by 315 on Dec 8, 2018 21:32:34 GMT
Due to a delay in releasing the 9 car Class 345's for the PAD - HAY services in time for the introduction of the winter timetable, a number of diagrams the LST - SNF metros will remain as Class 315 until late January at the earliest. Class 360's are also likely to remain on the PAD - HAF services until the later part of 2019. How many 315 diagrams is this likely to be? From what I have seen, four during the week. I will however confirm. |
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Post by fleetline on Dec 15, 2018 13:43:08 GMT
There is mention in one of the documents released that TfL are exploring the possibility of running 345s to Reading ahead of the central for opening to offset the loss off passenger income.
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Post by 315 on Jan 1, 2019 10:39:24 GMT
How many 315 diagrams is this likely to be? From what I have seen, four during the week. I will however confirm. Apologies, I was wrong. There should have been four additional Class 345 diagrams from the start of the timetable change, however these will still be covered by 315's. |
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Post by superteacher on Jan 1, 2019 10:48:00 GMT
From what I have seen, four during the week. I will however confirm. Apologies, I was wrong. There should have been four additional Class 345 diagrams from the start of the timetable change, however these will still be covered by 315's. Thanks. Hardly a shock that something else related to the project has been delayed! |
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Post by revupminster on Jan 1, 2019 11:49:01 GMT
I may have put this on another thread here. I have put it on another forum. I have read 2020 before through running and are the same people who built Crossrail 1 now in charge of Crossrail 2
If Crossrail Paddington is available (ie finished, almost finished, a few wall tiles to go, a bit of paint, a couple of light bulbs missing) why not run a service using the new, idling in the sidings, trains and the bi directional track to Paddington (low level).
It would be something positive instead of all this wallowing in misery and look like something has been done.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 1, 2019 14:00:41 GMT
I may have put this on another thread here. I have put it on another forum. I have read 2020 before through running and are the same people who built Crossrail 1 now in charge of Crossrail 2 Crossrail 2 is at a completely different stage in its life cycle than Crossrail 1. It is in the hands of planners and people doing economic / business case justification plus some level of engineering feasibility. That is vastly different to a full scale construction / fitting out / commissioning project team. TfL are leading on CR2 with support from Network Rail as required. Michelle Dix is MD of CR2 Limited and she's the former Head of Strategic Planning (or similar title) at TfL. AIUI CR2 is currently being "reviewed" (i.e. cut and descoped) to try to get it to be vaguely viable and affordable to try to meet TfL's ability to raise sufficient local funding and get past DfT / HM Treasury funding restrictions. Even if the DfT were to say "yes" tomorrow (which they won't) it will be a decade at least before any actual physical work is done on CR2. This is because the key funding sources for CR2 (Crossrail levy and Community Infrastructure Levy revenues) have been reallocated to fund CR1's cost overrun. That will take years and years to clear given TfL also has to pay off other Crossrail loans. I suspect this post really should be in another Crossrail thread and not about class 345 introduction. I'll leave that to the admins to deal with. |
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Post by superteacher on Jan 1, 2019 16:37:19 GMT
I may have put this on another thread here. I have put it on another forum. I have read 2020 before through running and are the same people who built Crossrail 1 now in charge of Crossrail 2 Crossrail 2 is at a completely different stage in its life cycle than Crossrail 1. It is in the hands of planners and people doing economic / business case justification plus some level of engineering feasibility. That is vastly different to a full scale construction / fitting out / commissioning project team. TfL are leading on CR2 with support from Network Rail as required. Michelle Dix is MD of CR2 Limited and she's the former Head of Strategic Planning (or similar title) at TfL. AIUI CR2 is currently being "reviewed" (i.e. cut and descoped) to try to get it to be vaguely viable and affordable to try to meet TfL's ability to raise sufficient local funding and get past DfT / HM Treasury funding restrictions. Even if the DfT were to say "yes" tomorrow (which they won't) it will be a decade at least before any actual physical work is done on CR2. This is because the key funding sources for CR2 (Crossrail levy and Community Infrastructure Levy revenues) have been reallocated to fund CR1's cost overrun. That will take years and years to clear given TfL also has to pay off other Crossrail loans. I suspect this post really should be in another Crossrail thread and not about class 345 introduction. I'll leave that to the admins to deal with.
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