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Post by trt on Jun 6, 2022 12:04:03 GMT
Ah! Of course.
*sarcasm*
No doubt these brand new trains are all fully automated and driverless so that's why it's still running. The Daily Mail crowd will be happy about that.
*end sarcasm*
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Post by xtmw on Jun 6, 2022 12:51:25 GMT
The Jubilee is running a Stratford - Canning Town service and a Baker Street - Stanmore service. How are trains reversing? Is the TBTC bi-directional?
I think they may be running empty down to North Greenwich, reversing there?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 6, 2022 13:39:22 GMT
The Jubilee is running a Stratford - Canning Town service and a Baker Street - Stanmore service. How are trains reversing? Is the TBTC bi-directional? I think they may be running empty down to North Greenwich, reversing there? Jubilee TBTC is not bi-directional. Trains are running through empty from Canning Town to Baker Street. Similarly, Northern Line trains are continuing empty beyond Kennington and reversing at Charing Cross; Edgware branch trains are continuing empty to Euston loop to reverse; Barnet branch trains are reversing at Mornington Crescent. (Service advertised as: Morden-Kennington, Edgware/Barnet-Camden Town) Bakerloo trains are running empty Elephant-Queen's Park, then passenger to Stonebridge/Harrow & Wealdstone (Service advertised as: Harrow & Wealdstone-Queen's Park) Piccadilly trains are continuing empty beyond Earl's Court and reversing at Hyde Park Corner (Service advertised as Heathrow-Earl's Court) |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 6, 2022 18:14:22 GMT
How come they're saying that the Elizabeth Line is open fully? Surely it shares many stations with the Tube? Are they not Section 12 stations? Or do they have an alternative evacuation plan and their own staffing? Drafted in enough staff to keep the prestige stations open. I used the Elizabeth line Canary Wharf to TCR earlier. AIUI Elizabeth line station staff are not on strike (just like LO staff are not on strike), Canary Wharf being an EL only station means it was operating as normal. At TCR only the Dean Street entrance was open, presumably because that is operated by EL staff not LU staff. |
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 6, 2022 21:25:50 GMT
The Jubilee is running a Stratford - Canning Town service and a Baker Street - Stanmore service. How are trains reversing? Is the TBTC bi-directional? I think they may be running empty down to North Greenwich, reversing there? Was running this short service justified? After all the DLR follows exactly the same route. Running the trains empty all the way to Baker Street must have consumed oodles of electricity, which is OK when carrying passengers but not in this instance. Is there no viable intermediate reversing point? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 6, 2022 21:52:09 GMT
Was running this short service justified? After all the DLR follows exactly the same route. Running the trains empty all the way to Baker Street must have consumed oodles of electricity, which is OK when carrying passengers but not in this instance. Is there no viable intermediate reversing point? The main Jubilee depots are at Stratford and Neasden with the available trains and drivers running the full Line between Stratford and Stanmore, in case more stations could be opened during the day. The restrictions were the stations, not the trains or drivers. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 7, 2022 8:59:21 GMT
Drafted in enough staff to keep the prestige stations open. I used the Elizabeth line Canary Wharf to TCR earlier. AIUI Elizabeth line station staff are not on strike (just like LO staff are not on strike), Canary Wharf being an EL only station means it was operating as normal. At TCR only the Dean Street entrance was open, presumably because that is operated by EL staff not LU staff. TCR couldn't open at all if there were no LU staff. As D Stock said they prioritised the "prestige" stations so TCR would have had managers, etc. from the Cover Group (I think TCR is Northern West End) and anyone else who was familiarised that had booked on for work |
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londoner
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Post by londoner on Jun 7, 2022 19:22:11 GMT
In the morning (6th June 2022), Jubilee line trains were running from Stanmore to Finchley Road and reversing from the southbound platform back to Stanmore.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 7, 2022 22:14:31 GMT
When I booked on for work Monday there was a generral discussion as to why Leyton was closed when it wasn't a "Section 12" and nobody knew
When I booked on today the TOM informed me that apparently someone (local plod, fire brigade, Waltham Forest council?) has decided leaving Leyton open unstaffed during a strike is a "security risk".
No, me neither
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Post by Chris M on Jun 8, 2022 0:38:58 GMT
When I booked on for work Monday there was a generral discussion as to why Leyton was closed when it wasn't a "Section 12" and nobody knew When I booked on today the TOM informed me that apparently someone (local plod, fire brigade, Waltham Forest council?) has decided leaving Leyton open unstaffed during a strike is a "security risk". No, me neither "Security risk", like "Health and safety risk" is used so often to mean things like "too hard", "don't want to" and "there isn't actually a reason" that it is essentially meaningless unless specifics are given regarding the actual nature of the actual risk it's completely meaningless. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 8, 2022 8:33:44 GMT
When I booked on for work Monday there was a generral discussion as to why Leyton was closed when it wasn't a "Section 12" and nobody knew When I booked on today the TOM informed me that apparently someone (local plod, fire brigade, Waltham Forest council?) has decided leaving Leyton open unstaffed during a strike is a "security risk". No, me neither "Security risk", like "Health and safety risk" is used so often to mean things like "too hard", "don't want to" and "there isn't actually a reason" that it is essentially meaningless unless specifics are given regarding the actual nature of the actual risk it's completely meaningless. That would make sense if it was TfL who decided that Leyton was a "security risk" but my TOM said the decision was made by someone outside. Leyton is a pretty simple station, two platforms with two sets of stairs to a small ticket hall, similar to many "open section" stations that are left unstaffed during strikes (and other times). I'm sure there are reasons which the local Area Manager could clarify but as I work train-side I don't have a great deal of communication with the station-side of the business |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jun 8, 2022 8:52:34 GMT
When I booked on for work Monday there was a generral discussion as to why Leyton was closed when it wasn't a "Section 12" and nobody knew When I booked on today the TOM informed me that apparently someone (local plod, fire brigade, Waltham Forest council?) has decided leaving Leyton open unstaffed during a strike is a "security risk". No, me neither An unmanned station! Crivens! A passenger could get on a train without paying its fare. |
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Post by Tubeboy on Jun 8, 2022 9:32:17 GMT
According to the emergency plans for the station, there is a minimum staffing level of one…but only when Leyton Orient are playing at home.
On the 6th, a driver inadvertently let off some passengers. Staff from Leytonstone had to come down to let them out. In the evening, the same thinghappened again, but this time, the passenger walked allong the track….
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Post by Tubeboy on Jun 8, 2022 9:39:03 GMT
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 8, 2022 9:42:57 GMT
According to the emergency plans for the station, there is a minimum staffing level of one…but only when Leyton Orient are playing at home. On the 6th, a driver inadvertently let off some passengers. Staff had to come down from Leytonstone to let them out. The train must have been in Coded Manual, if it had been in ATO then "station skip" would have taken it through the platform at 20kph I don't think The Os were playing Monday so that can't be the reason. |
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Post by Tubeboy on Jun 8, 2022 9:47:31 GMT
AS, it was just for info purposes, not to explain why the place is locked up on strike days.
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Post by brooklynbound on Jun 8, 2022 10:41:10 GMT
I like the Paris metro take on strike days. Leave all barriers open, people can travel on whatever trains actually run for free.
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Post by Tubeboy on Jun 8, 2022 12:05:40 GMT
I like the Paris metro take on strike days. Leave all barriers open, people can travel on whatever trains actually run for free. If TFL staff did that, they’d.be in breach of contract, and therefore be liable to be sacked. |
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Post by 35b on Jun 8, 2022 14:10:39 GMT
I like the Paris metro take on strike days. Leave all barriers open, people can travel on whatever trains actually run for free. If TFL staff did that, they’d.be in breach of contract, and therefore be liable to be sacked. I've heard that many times, but am puzzled as to quite how that can be when withdrawal of labour, which is also a breach of contract, is protected where that withdrawal of labour is part of legal strike action. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 8, 2022 18:26:59 GMT
If TFL staff did that, they’d.be in breach of contract, and therefore be liable to be sacked. I've heard that many times, but am puzzled as to quite how that can be when withdrawal of labour, which is also a breach of contract, is protected where that withdrawal of labour is part of legal strike action. Seriously? When station staff book on for work they are supposed to do your job which includes checking that those with valid tickets can travel When you are on strike they don't do their job Withdrawal of labour is still legally permissible (in a country with the most draconian labour laws in western Europe) |
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Post by 35b on Jun 8, 2022 18:49:13 GMT
I've heard that many times, but am puzzled as to quite how that can be when withdrawal of labour, which is also a breach of contract, is protected where that withdrawal of labour is part of legal strike action. Seriously? When station staff book on for work they are supposed to do your job which includes checking that those with valid tickets can travel When you are on strike they don't do their job Withdrawal of labour is still legally permissible (in a country with the most draconian labour laws in western Europe) Seriously. I would love someone to point me to where there is legislation (or a court judgment) that makes refusal to do certain duties unlawful, but outright withdrawal of labour permissible, where it is part of a legal industrial dispute (I note your point about the restrictions on industrial action). Where, for example, an employer would be hurt by refusal to perform certain tasks (e.g. revenue) but customers would be unhurt, leverage would be greater with the employer, without the blowback from an aggrieved public. I write in full acknowledgment that there are many roles where this distinction would in reality be entirely arbitrary. |
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Post by trt on Jun 8, 2022 23:16:23 GMT
It's technically that under S.98 of the Employment Rights Act 1996, it is unfair to be dismissed for activity related to industrial action (see also S.152, 153 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 TULRCA (dismissal on ground of trade union membership or activities or in connection with industrial action)). So you have a specific protection against dismissal for breach of contract (tort law), i.e. a statutory immunity. www.gov.uk/industrial-action-strikes/your-employment-rights-during-industrial-actionBut... the industrial action has to meet very strict criteria in order for it to be official and proper. Fail to meet those criteria and you lose your immunity. Section 5.166 of the Carr Review (Bruce Carr QC) from October 2014, following the revenue action ordered by the RMT Union in two years prior to this stated that in his opinion: "Any loss to a business, such as loss of profits can also be recovered by way of damages where there has been a civil wrong, such as nuisance, harassment or trespass (for example). TULRCA again would not protect the actions of a union which are contrary to the civil law even where they relate to a trade dispute." The examples given in the report of activities which in his opinion the courts could consider as harassment and nuisance are ones that one could easily see happening at a picket line, and indeed did. Chanting, the use of the word "scab", entry to the station (the unpaid area) by a striking individual... all could give grounds for a civil case claiming damages. It basically shutdown the option to refuse to do revenue duty - it gave the green light for TfL to estimate lost revenue and sue the RMT for that amount in court where the union could very well lose their statutory immunity. I don't believe this has been tested in court, but seeing how an award for lost revenue could wipe out the RMT's coffers in one hit, it seems only prudent for the RMT etc not to take that chance. The two year period in that review (2012 - 2014) saw industrial action on the London Underground 13 times. Boris Johnson was, of course, London Mayor from 2008 to 2016. The review was primarily triggered by the Grangemouth Chemicals and Refinery dispute. The review makes for interesting reading, if you are into the politics of industrial relations. It seems like it was intended to open the door to new legislation that would cripple unions completely. Carr wasn't going to play ball with the government on that one (restriction of civil liberties) despite his anti-union leanings; he acknowledges that himself in the report. assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/363806/Carr_Review_Report.pdf |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 9, 2022 3:39:15 GMT
I like the Paris metro take on strike days. Leave all barriers open, people can travel on whatever trains actually run for free. Similar to the Tube the Paris Metro has five unions representing different grades (CGT, FO, Unsa, Solidaires and La Base) so I doubt if station staff leave the gates open when the drivers are on strike. |
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Post by 35b on Jun 9, 2022 5:54:39 GMT
It's technically that under S.98 of the Employment Rights Act 1996, it is unfair to be dismissed for activity related to industrial action (see also S.152, 153 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 TULCRA (dismissal on ground of trade union membership or activities or in connection with industrial action)). So you have a specific protection against dismissal for breach of contract (tort law), i.e. a statutory immunity. www.gov.uk/industrial-action-strikes/your-employment-rights-during-industrial-actionBut... the industrial action has to meet very strict criteria in order for it to be official and proper. Fail to meet those criteria and you lose your immunity. Section 5.166 of the Carr Review (Bruce Carr QC) from October 2014, following the revenue action ordered by the RMT Union in two years prior to this stated that in his opinion: "Any loss to a business, such as loss of profits can also be recovered by way of damages where there has been a civil wrong, such as nuisance, harassment or trespass (for example). TULRCA again would not protect the actions of a union which are contrary to the civil law even where they relate to a trade dispute." The examples given in the report of activities which in his opinion the courts could consider as harassment and nuisance are ones that one could easily see happening at a picket line, and indeed did. Chanting, the use of the word "scab", entry to the station (the unpaid area) by a striking individual... all could give grounds for a civil case claiming damages. It basically shutdown the option to refuse to do revenue duty - it gave the green light for TfL to estimate lost revenue and sue the RMT for that amount in court where the union could very well lose their statutory immunity. I don't believe this has been tested in court, but seeing how an award for lost revenue could wipe out the RMT's coffers in one hit, it seems only prudent for the RMT etc not to take that chance. The two year period in that review (2012 - 2014) saw industrial action on the London Underground 13 times. Boris Johnson was, of course, London Mayor from 2008 to 2016. The review was primarily triggered by the Grangemouth Chemicals and Refinery dispute. The review makes for interesting reading, if you are into the politics of industrial relations. It seems like it was intended to open the door to new legislation that would cripple unions completely. Carr wasn't going to play ball with the government on that one (restriction of civil liberties) despite his anti-union leanings; he acknowledges that himself in the report. assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/363806/Carr_Review_Report.pdfThank you for that - a very helpful primer. |
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 21, 2022 23:59:00 GMT
Because of the trainstrike Gants Hill Central line London Underground station was closed (tweet below includes two photos) twitter.com/citytransportin/status/ 1539394413864140804 |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 22, 2022 6:08:45 GMT
Gants Hill, Wanstead closed but Redbridge open so I guess all available staff sent to Redbridge to keep that open
Leyton, Mile End, Bethnal Green closed. As two consecutive stations were closed we had to go coded manual Stratford to Liverpool Street both directions
Trains had to be stabled by 6:30pm because the day shift at the Power Supply Control Centre (Unite) booked off at 7pm and the night shift would be on strike. The day shift doesn't book on until 7am which is why the service won't resume until 8am today
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jul 19, 2022 21:29:27 GMT
RMT have suspended action over Night Tube after an offer from management,will review in 3 months.Think the offer is for a panel of volunteers on each Night Tube line.
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Post by xtmw on Jul 19, 2022 21:44:23 GMT
Amazing news! This makes my journeys on Friday's a lot easier!
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 20, 2022 5:28:13 GMT
RMT have basically accepted what ASLEF agreed in May 2021 so they've been on strike for 33 weekends for absolutely nothing
And that is why I am an ASLEF member
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Post by rheostar on Jul 20, 2022 7:02:05 GMT
RMT have basically accepted what ASLEF agreed in May 2021 so they've been on strike for 33 weekends for absolutely nothing And that is why I am an ASLEF member I dread to think how many times something similar's happened over the years. |
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