Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 6, 2018 15:02:28 GMT
We could sell it to Arizona to match their bridge.
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Post by superteacher on Nov 6, 2018 15:27:10 GMT
Well, in reply to you all, It isn't the last of its' kind by a long chalk, but, if one such gets simply junked, then how long before the likes of South Kentish Town, Down Street & York Road, all of no use to passengers now, as is Eversholt Street of course, go the same way-after all, the developers would say, plenty of the same sort of extant stations still in use, so......? And then, developers being developers---"Look, this faence tiling's all very well, but it's long since been proved, by all the examples of it that have had to be demolished or updated, that doesn't let the light in/isn't very good for customer flows, so let's rebuild them all". We have an example of up-cycling in Marlborough Road station, which was turned into a restaurant post-war & has served as several different such eateries since. Now, there's a thought for a repositioned Euston CCE & HR building-ticket guichets as serving hatches. Plan C, could also be re-positioned anywhere in that guise, could it not? We know the exact date it opened & closed, we could use the same menus as the Savoy, Claridges & The Ritz had on those dates. Back on answers-EOR itself can't help but celebrate the Tube as part of its' heritage, because Tube trains ran through it between 1957-1993. So, they may or may not have been incongruous in the Essex Countryside in the first place, but there they were, and they became a part of it. However, if they only form a part of that heritage, perhaps celebrating that part could be confined to one and only one historic Tube station building? The rest could celebrate the GER/LNER/BR Eastern Region heritage as appropriate or not. Epping to Ongar had original GER features and it was never intended to be part of the London Underground. |
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Post by 35b on Nov 6, 2018 18:31:24 GMT
We could do with a place to re-erect worthy buildings as they have in Helsinki, or the Weald and Downland Museum here. We don't, that apart have a very enviable record...eg, the saving of Lawrence of Arabia's bungalow in the 1930s, and its re-erection (now unfortunately next to a set of diesel pumps) at Loughton. Perhaps this one could be reerected in a corner of the Olympic Park...after all, are supposed to be the relics of the Arch, in the Bow Back Rivers? I might support that idea, done sympathetically in the right place. Dropping a central London building onto a country halt, however,... |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 6, 2018 19:53:37 GMT
Epping to Ongar had original GER features and it was never intended to be part of the London Underground. And Leslie Green's buildings belong on the Yerkes tubes, not the Central Line. |
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Post by ted672 on Nov 7, 2018 8:36:41 GMT
We could do with a place to re-erect worthy buildings as they have in Helsinki, or the Weald and Downland Museum here. We don't, that apart have a very enviable record...eg, the saving of Lawrence of Arabia's bungalow in the 1930s, and its re-erection (now unfortunately next to a set of diesel pumps) at Loughton. Perhaps this one could be reerected in a corner of the Olympic Park...after all, are supposed to be the relics of the Arch, in the Bow Back Rivers? I might support that idea, done sympathetically in the right place. Dropping a central London building onto a country halt, however,... It would be great if, instead of building a theme park in the vicinity of the Dartford Crossing, a London version of Beamish or the Black Country Museum could be constructed. Tubes, trams, trolleybuses.............. oh the joy!!! Anyone have a large lottery win that they can't think what to do with? |
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Post by theblackferret on Nov 7, 2018 10:22:41 GMT
We could do with a place to re-erect worthy buildings as they have in Helsinki, or the Weald and Downland Museum here. We don't, that apart have a very enviable record...eg, the saving of Lawrence of Arabia's bungalow in the 1930s, and its re-erection (now unfortunately next to a set of diesel pumps) at Loughton. Perhaps this one could be reerected in a corner of the Olympic Park...after all, are supposed to be the relics of the Arch, in the Bow Back Rivers? It would be great if, instead of building a theme park in the vicinity of the Dartford Crossing, a London version of Beamish or the Black Country Museum could be constructed. Tubes, trams, trolleybuses.............. oh the joy!!! Anyone have a large lottery win that they can't think what to do with? Why not both, with a Tube Line connecting the two, which will spawn a couple of intermediate stations at suitable historical sites between? Again, Euston CCEHR Station could serve anywhere on this, or as a Tourist Information Centre/themed restaurant. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 7, 2018 12:43:01 GMT
Again, Eversholt Street Station could serve anywhere on this. The Underground station building on Eversholt Street, on the east side of the main line station, is long gone. That was the CSLR station, at the junction of Eversholt Street and Drummond Street (now separated from the rest of Drummond Street by the 1960s expansion of the main line station's concourse, and renamed Doric Way). leslie Green did not design any stations for the CSLR. It is the Leslie Green station built for the CCEHR at the junction of Melton Street and Drummond Street, on the west side of the main line station, which we are discussing. Both stations can be seen on this 1916 map. maps.nls.uk/view/103313306However, there is a Leslie Green station building on Eversholt Street: but Mornington Crescent is in no imminent danger of demolition. |
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Post by theblackferret on Nov 7, 2018 15:04:37 GMT
Again, Eversholt Street Station could serve anywhere on this. The Underground station building on Eversholt Street, on the east side of the main line station, is long gone. That was the CSLR station, at the junction of Eversholt Street and Drummond Street (now separated from the rest of Drummond Street by the 1960s expansion of the main line station's concourse, and renamed Doric Way). leslie Green did not design any stations for the CSLR. It is the Leslie Green station built for the CCEHR at the junction of Melton Street and Drummond Street, on the west side of the main line station, which we are discussing. Both stations can be seen on this 1916 map. maps.nls.uk/view/103313306However, there is a Leslie Green station building on Eversholt Street: but Mornington Crescent is in no imminent danger of demolition. Thanks,have corrected it---Eversholt Street stayed with me after we photographed the station in 2013-mrs tbf demanding food and sustinence after the walk from South Kentish Town & that's where we partook of same. Euston House was built on the site of the CSLR station, but that too may be gone by now. Both stations were connected beneath ground, and above ground by the fact they both closed on the same date, 30 July 1914? |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 7, 2018 17:06:54 GMT
Euston House was built on the site of the CSLR station, but that too may be gone by now. Euston House, built as the London Offices of the LMSR, was still there last time I looked. Latest Google Street View was in March 2018. (But no longer in railway use, by the look of it). manchesterhistory.net/architecture/1930/eustonhouse.html |
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Post by patrickb on Nov 7, 2018 23:26:50 GMT
Its being demolished for HS2 along with the Bree Louise Loved that pub! |
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Post by patrickb on Nov 8, 2018 0:15:11 GMT
I've personally have been very fond of the disused CCE&HR Drummond Street entrance and it's a shame it's going.
Having done a lot of research on the evolution of Euston Tube Station from C&SLR Island Platform days to LPTB unification of the two lines all the way to the Victoria Line Works and present day... I can say that this Leslie Green building is even more relevant to the history of the Northern Line than most currently still in use. Afaik, access still exists at both disused Euston Tubes with a step ladder taking you down to the lower landing of the disused lifts shafts (for engineering access no doubt)
If these HS2 works didn't take place, I would've greatly encouraged a reinstatement of the Drummond Street entrance as well as construction of a new entrance on the the ground floor of Euston House. The building itself almost looks like as if it was supposed to accommodate a new modern day entrance, a bit like what they did at Angel. Having extra entrance only points greatly reduced the crowding problems at the 1960's ticket hall and the interchange level. The current layout is effectively a funnel and very inefficient.
I don't agree with the various comments about making way for "progress£. This kind of thinking towards heritage is the cause for the wipe out of many more buildings unless we take caution. It's the same reason why St. Pancras was nearly demolished, but look at it now. Was it cheaper to restore it? No. But it was worth every penny that was put into the restoration.
Anyway, I digress. At the end of the day, the Drummond Street Entrance will be demolished and will join a long list of demolished Leslie Green Entrances, but as it's been mentioned already on this thread, it's not the first, and it likely won't be the last. Many Charles Holden Buildings that we have come to love replaced Leslie Green ones e.g: Warren Street and Arsenal
Though if I do have bone to pick with the HS2 Euston project, it's that the artist impression sketches of some of these modern glass building designs are god awful and crude. I should imagine that everybody busy looking down on their phones while walking to catch their train is just going walk right into the glass. The warm charm of those Leslie Green buildings are something that can not be matched.
It would be nice to salvage many pieces that can be used on other ox blood tile buildings that need restoration. Or perhaps a facade preservation like the one we have at Hammersmith.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Nov 8, 2018 2:35:09 GMT
Video by Londonist on what is going on
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Post by zbang on Nov 8, 2018 2:51:04 GMT
Its being demolished for HS2 along with the Bree Louise Loved that pub! The same; I stop there every time I'm in London. |
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Nov 8, 2018 3:54:09 GMT
You'd have to be a pretty perverse and deliberately provocative contrarian to gleefully relish in the demolition of any building, structure, or physical entity of architectural or design merit or note, no matter how dilapidated. A spiteful philistine, even.
Not that preservation should result in the entire world preserved in aspic forever more, or as we aspire to greater and better things, that the good and great of the past shouldn't necessarily make way. Everything has its time and era. But a modicum of decorum is surely necessary - it can be, and is, both a shame it must go but good that something more useful will take its place.
If it is unavoidable that it must go - and it seems to be so - then it must go. But at least it is for its space to be used by something objectively better (extra platforms and capacity on the NR network, which is undeniably needed). As others have pointed out, it isn't strictly unique either in its architecture (though of a limited pool), so there would also appear to be little appetite to dismantle and rebuild elsewhere (though the idea of a Londonesque Beamish sounds lovely dream!)
To echo the sentiments above, heritage doesn't necessarily have to be the enemy of progress. Though for a whole host of reasons, it can be and has been presented as such. There are many architectural gems that London has lost in the postwar period because of money or ideology, for example. Many of them were contentious or at least regrettable at the time, some so contentious that they still reverberate now - like the Doric Arch, or perhaps the Firestone Tyre Factory. Drummond Street will not likely be one of those in decades ahead, but like all history it speaks of materials, design philosophies, and aesthetics that are now different and wont be attempted again. Its a period piece that speaks of local past. I think people like to see that sort of history as the longevity and familiarity connects them to a place.
It will be a shame when it and the surrounding area goes. Perhaps, as @patricb suggests, some tiling and ornamentation might be useful to provide spares for other damaged examples that remain?
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Post by theblackferret on Nov 8, 2018 11:32:50 GMT
Video by Londonist on what is going on Thanks for that. I've actually stayed in the Thistle Hotel twice, but can't say I'll miss that. But I do wonder, when the guy(at 3:10) says "Before we take out this station", whether he ought to start auditioning for Godfather Three. Well, I suppose a contract's still a contract, regardless of who's delivering the hit. |
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Post by trt on Nov 9, 2018 10:15:05 GMT
We could do with a place to re-erect worthy buildings as they have in Helsinki, or the Weald and Downland Museum here. We don't, that apart have a very enviable record...eg, the saving of Lawrence of Arabia's bungalow in the 1930s, and its re-erection (now unfortunately next to a set of diesel pumps) at Loughton. Perhaps this one could be reerected in a corner of the Olympic Park...after all, are supposed to be the relics of the Arch, in the Bow Back Rivers? COAM? (Chiltern Open Air Museum). |
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Post by trt on Nov 9, 2018 10:15:56 GMT
We could sell it to Arizona to match their bridge. It would make my commute easier. Euston to London Bridge in no time! I've often dreamed of moving them so they were closer together. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 9, 2018 12:04:56 GMT
We could do with a place to re-erect worthy buildings as they have in Helsinki, or the Weald and Downland Museum here. We don't, that apart have a very enviable record...eg, the saving of Lawrence of Arabia's bungalow in the 1930s, and its re-erection (now unfortunately next to a set of diesel pumps) at Loughton. Perhaps this one could be reerected in a corner of the Olympic Park...after all, are supposed to be the relics of the Arch, in the Bow Back Rivers? COAM? (Chiltern Open Air Museum). The Chiltern Open Air Museum is very much rural in setting and theme, so unless they were to start an urban section (which would need more than one building) it wouldn't be an appropriate match. |
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Post by stapler on Nov 9, 2018 12:42:26 GMT
No, I was saying we need a London equivalent
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Post by trt on Nov 9, 2018 12:47:35 GMT
No, I was saying we need a London equivalent Is COAM not close enough? And there are "metropolitan" buildings at COAM, such as the Reading toilets, as well as rural. That's not to say that they couldn't do with more, it's a valuable resource for students of architecture. In London, of course, we have the Geffrye Museum (mainly interiors), and there are schools such as the Bartlett which could perhaps make use of such a resource. |
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Post by theblackferret on Nov 9, 2018 13:07:51 GMT
I wonder what the reaction would be to the spare plinth in Trafalgar Square?
After all, it did once have its' own Tube station.
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Post by humbug on Nov 9, 2018 16:29:04 GMT
The Black Country Living Museum does this amazingly well. Also recommended is The Folk Museum in Oslo norskfolkemuseum.no/en (who apparently copied from the idea from Sweden, where I have not visited). Both museums have re-sited buildings from the local area (in Oslo, some as old as 1200). London tends to preserve buildings in-situ. Not saying that this is a bad idea. Are any tube stations listed? |
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Post by John Tuthill on Nov 9, 2018 17:12:50 GMT
The Black Country Living Museum does this amazingly well. Also recommended is The Folk Museum in Oslo norskfolkemuseum.no/en (who apparently copied from the idea from Sweden, where I have not visited). Both museums have re-sited buildings from the local area (in Oslo, some as old as 1200). London tends to preserve buildings in-situ. Not saying that this is a bad idea. Are any tube stations listed? Check out Wikapedia, 'London Underground listed stations' |
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Post by westville13 on Nov 9, 2018 21:19:37 GMT
Having been involved in building conservation for many years, I am more and more convinced that "zoos" of moved buildings, however much fun they are in their own right, are not the answer. Conserve in situ whether for the original function or repurposed (like the Great Northern Hotel) or record and demolish. The new St Martin's is a wonderful example of re-use. And sometimes you can keep a façade (indeed the "oxblood" facades rather lend themselves to this) and lose the rest - but if a building can no longer earn its own living eventually it will go - we cannot afford more than a few pensioners (English Heritage are already struggling and even the National Trust has problems - they have I believe just given up Eyam because they cannot make it work financially). As to the relative merits of old and new buildings Big Jim Stirling's No 1 Poultry replaced a listed Victorian building,and was hugely condemned for doing so, and has now been listed itself as of national importance. Times change and so does London. And so it should. For a city to stop changing is to die.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2018 22:18:26 GMT
How about donating the building to the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre (a.k.a. Quainton Road)?
With a track record of preserving buildings (Rewley Road) and a collection that includes various London Underground cars etc, I would think this would be an ideal new location for the building, assuming it were feasible.
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Post by antharro on Nov 10, 2018 3:00:22 GMT
Let's go easy with the "why can't we just donate it to ___" posts, please. It's not going to get donated, it's going to be demolished, and this thread is starting to get a little towards fantasy.
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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 17, 2019 17:02:27 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 17:26:02 GMT
Yay, another toilet.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 17, 2019 19:41:47 GMT
Even by the standards of modern ventilation shafts, that is an ugly looking building.
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Post by superteacher on Jan 17, 2019 21:10:10 GMT
What on Earth is that? 😵😵
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