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Post by fish7373 on Jul 22, 2020 17:15:35 GMT
Hi has any seen that TFL want to sell the land for houses At Acton Museum it's on Facebook
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Post by holborncentral on Jul 22, 2020 17:43:43 GMT
Saw it on Twitter. Must say I'm shocked about it and I haven't even been to the Acton depot yet!
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 22, 2020 17:51:27 GMT
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Post by fish7373 on Jul 22, 2020 19:16:56 GMT
Where do you put all the trains and buses and 320.000 pieces don't say Acton Works |
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Post by croxleyn on Jul 22, 2020 19:35:33 GMT
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Post by Chris M on Jul 22, 2020 21:29:35 GMT
Where do you put all the trains and buses and 320.000 pieces don't say Acton Works Multiple places. For most things that are not trains (and some of the exhibits that are), any large, dry and not-too-humid warehouse will do - it doesn't even need to be in London (and it might be possible to open it up to visitors, depending on location, space, insurance, etc, etc). Some things can be loaned to other museums. There is space for some of the trains at various depots around the network (a carriage or two could share a road with the train at Northfields that hasn't moved in goodness knows how long for example), and there are various off-network locations available too (especially if the developer is paying). Everything that hasn't been accommodated elsewhere will take up sufficiently little room that it will fit in less than half the current space, so you can put it all on one side of the site, redevelop the other side, move the stuff to the new half then redevelop the side where you were storing the items. |
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Post by jetblast787 on Jul 23, 2020 8:27:10 GMT
I actually see this working; get private developers to fund an alternative facility in the suburbs and move the museum there before building homes. Theres plenty of space in the footprint to make it financially viable
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Post by John Tuthill on Jul 23, 2020 8:33:00 GMT
I actually see this working; get private developers to fund an alternative facility in the suburbs and move the museum there before building homes. Theres plenty of space in the footprint to make it financially viable With an essential raillink. |
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Post by alpinejohn on Jul 23, 2020 12:30:55 GMT
I actually see this working; get private developers to fund an alternative facility in the suburbs and move the museum there before building homes. Theres plenty of space in the footprint to make it financially viable With an essential raillink. Without wishing to hijack this thread this proposal does make me think again about the planned Croxley rail link. If they build the Croxley link it would allow the beautiful former Watford Station to be turned into the new museum depot location. Beyond the planned new link divergence, there is still masses of space along the approach to Watford where former sidings were lifted but could be reinstated to house masses of rolling stock. Since the extensions to the Seltrac ATO (Automatic Train Operation) Signalling seems to have ground to a halt, there could still be the potential to operate the occasional historic unit as a shuttle to Chesham using the North Curve using the existing colour light signalling and trip cocks. Possibly for many years. Keeping rolling stock active is a far better way of preserving the historic fleet, than sealing it up in an air-conditioned box and leaving it to decay out of sight and away from any public access. The splendid frontage at Watford Station building would make a superb entrance for the museum especially if the Acton developers were also required to fund roofing over the platforms to create a fabulous display and events location. Just like the former Oxford-Rewley Road station that was relocated to become the indoor centre-piece of the Buckingham Railway Centre, I guess moving the depot to Watford might even get some lottery funding for such a prestige project. Recycling the Watford station as a museum would probably also increase use of the Met and Croxley Link - provided TFL can be persuaded to arrange an occasional connecting services. The importance of direct services is demonstrated on the few weekends when Chiltern are persuaded to operate a special through service from Aylesbury, when there is usually a marked increase in visitor numbers at the Quainton Road. |
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Jul 23, 2020 15:37:00 GMT
Can anyone smell fresh, new, warm brown envelopes ready for stuffing?
"Bunging" is not extinct when it comes to "development", especially for housing
"Mystery fires" still happen, and before one envelopes all the LT Museum stock, it might be prudent to accede to considering a move from Acton under these circumstances
Unfortunately, this isn't RIPAS or fantasy. The exhibits MUST be protected, and an alternative home for them must be provided
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North End
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Post by North End on Jul 23, 2020 16:01:30 GMT
Can anyone smell fresh, new, warm brown envelopes ready for stuffing? "Bunging" is not extinct when it comes to "development", especially for housing "Mystery fires" still happen, and before one envelopes all the LT Museum stock, it might be prudent to accede to considering a move from Acton under these circumstances Unfortunately, this isn't RIPAS or fantasy. The exhibits MUST be protected, and an alternative home for them must be provided One wouldn’t have thought that an odd-shaped site bordered by a multi-track railway on one side and an operational railway depot on the other would be that ripe for developing, but evidently it is. Having said that, the Depot has to some extent outgrown the Acton site, hence why we’ve seen things like the 86 stock car up for sale and no space to preserve an A stock unit. If a way could be found of forging a new location with more space then I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed, perhaps if (now I’m really into wishful thinking) the deal incorporated developer funded restoration and upkeep of a few niceties like the Aldwych 72 stock unit, the CHT 62 stock, and perhaps a few other bits when the time comes! Finding such a site within the London area would not be easy. |
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Post by Chris L on Jul 23, 2020 16:29:51 GMT
With an essential raillink. Without wishing to hijack this thread this proposal does make me think again about the planned Croxley rail link. If they build the Croxley link it would allow the beautiful former Watford Station to be turned into the new museum depot location. Beyond the planned new link divergence, there is still masses of space along the approach to Watford where former sidings were lifted but could be reinstated to house masses of rolling stock. Since the extensions to the Seltrac ATO (Automatic Train Operation) Signalling seems to have ground to a halt, there could still be the potential to operate the occasional historic unit as a shuttle to Chesham using the North Curve using the existing colour light signalling and trip cocks. Possibly for many years. Keeping rolling stock active is a far better way of preserving the historic fleet, than sealing it up in an air-conditioned box and leaving it to decay out of sight and away from any public access. The splendid frontage at Watford Station building would make a superb entrance for the museum especially if the Acton developers were also required to fund roofing over the platforms to create a fabulous display and events location. Just like the former Oxford-Rewley Road station that was relocated to become the indoor centre-piece of the Buckingham Railway Centre, I guess moving the depot to Watford might even get some lottery funding for such a prestige project. Recycling the Watford station as a museum would probably also increase use of the Met and Croxley Link - provided TFL can be persuaded to arrange an occasional connecting services. The importance of direct services is demonstrated on the few weekends when Chiltern are persuaded to operate a special through service from Aylesbury, when there is usually a marked increase in visitor numbers at the Quainton Road. The Depot at Acton needs to be climate controlled to preserve the contents. Roofing over platforms would hardly be this. The forecourt at Watford would not provide enough parking spaces for necessary collection vehicles let alone disabled spaces. The existing premises are overloaded already so a new building within the complex may be a good solution. |
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Post by straphanger on Jul 23, 2020 16:35:00 GMT
Those of us who live near tube stations with a shoebox-sized bit of vacant land will by now probably have seen the plans for TfL's various housing schemes. At the rate these things are being proposed it won't be long before these stations are buried within plans for wholly inappropriate huge blocks of flats.
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Post by stapler on Jul 23, 2020 20:58:30 GMT
The Mayor is so strapped for cash that absurd, over-dense schemes are being proposed everywhere. It may well be, however, that a post-Covid property crash will stymie his little schemes. Apart from that, the ones at Loughton and Debden, e.g. have been kaiboshed by the Planning Inspector already.
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Post by jetblast787 on Jul 24, 2020 7:44:11 GMT
Those of us who live near tube stations with a shoebox-sized bit of vacant land will by now probably have seen the plans for TfL's various housing schemes. At the rate these things are being proposed it won't be long before these stations are buried within plans for wholly inappropriate huge blocks of flats. In an ideal world a potential replacement museum will be near to a tube line, but if funds are required, who says we can't sacrifice and build it near a NR station? |
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Jul 24, 2020 8:03:55 GMT
Rail access is an obvious requirement if there are ever to be any more special rail runs........
............but, my rants against "planners" are legendary, so any crass idea could be acceptable to them.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 24, 2020 10:30:32 GMT
Rail access is an obvious requirement if there are ever to be any more special rail runs........ Rail vehicles are regularly moved between disconnected heritage railways by road, and while this would increase the cost and complexity (possibly significantly) of future special runs it does not rule them out as long as the new site has space to load and unload rail vehicles from road vehicles (which it will absolutely have to for exhibits to be delivered in the first place) and there is a similar space available somewhere on the SSR network (which TfL will require for core business needs anyway). However, as has been made perfectly clear any redevelopment must meet the needs of the museum, and special runs are a very significant source of income for the museum so there is no danger of this development (if it happens) being responsible for ending them. |
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Post by Chris L on Jul 24, 2020 11:54:52 GMT
Those of us who live near tube stations with a shoebox-sized bit of vacant land will by now probably have seen the plans for TfL's various housing schemes. At the rate these things are being proposed it won't be long before these stations are buried within plans for wholly inappropriate huge blocks of flats. In an ideal world a potential replacement museum will be near to a tube line, but if funds are required, who says we can't sacrifice and build it near a NR station? No need for a different location. The current site works and the proposed redevelopment includes new accommodation. |
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Post by Chris W on Jul 24, 2020 13:24:06 GMT
The text being produced by TfL is, IMO, a little ambiguous.
I suspect there's an implication in the text about the location not changing, however it doesn't explicitly state that the replacement LTM storage facility must be on the same site - just 'part of the development proposals'. Theoretically these 'development proposals' could include the identification of an alternative site.
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Post by Chris M on Jul 24, 2020 14:39:59 GMT
Indeed, if a developer thinks that they could get better value for their money by building a replacement depot in a different location then I get the impression that TfL will listen to the proposals with an open mind.
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Post by sawb on Jul 24, 2020 15:13:47 GMT
Given that neither TfL nor the museum are exactly flushed with cash at present, it would seem realistic to say this is several decades away, if it happens at all.
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Post by Chris M on Jul 24, 2020 15:27:57 GMT
Given that neither TfL nor the museum are exactly flushed with cash at present, it would seem realistic to say this is several decades away, if it happens at all. No, because it is developers who will be paying. It would make more money for TfL in the long term if they did the development themselves but I don't think the government would allow that. |
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Post by brigham on Jul 24, 2020 17:26:35 GMT
We had a similar problem with a well-liked sports centre and theatre. Bogus and exaggerated reports began to circulate about the 'ageing' building needing vast sums of money for 'urgent structural repairs'. Suddenly a developer appeared, offering to build a 'new, up-to-date' facility in a local public park, in exchange for the old site.
The 'new' facility turned out to be a token offering, simply to free-up the old town-centre site for a supermarket. The supermarket had originally been planned to take the place of the public park, which plan had thankfully fallen foul of covenants protecting the site.
Beware of planners; they speak with forked tongue!
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Post by Chris L on Jul 25, 2020 3:31:02 GMT
The text being produced by TfL is, IMO, a little ambiguous.
I suspect there's an implication in the text about the location not changing, however it doesn't explicitly state that the replacement LTM storage facility must be on the same site - just 'part of the development proposals'. Theoretically these 'development proposals' could include the identification of an alternative site.
The site plans show a revised location within the development. |
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Post by brigham on Jul 25, 2020 8:40:54 GMT
Do the site plans show a significantly reduced location within the development?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jul 25, 2020 9:26:45 GMT
The notice states
From this it is clear to me that the depot is going to move somewhere. I wonder if the disused sidings at South Harrow may be a suitable location, a quick mooch on a Satellite image shows some houses nearby but also the total size of the site does look comparable to the current location.
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Post by jimbo on Jul 25, 2020 9:42:53 GMT
The notice states From this it is clear to me that the depot is going to move somewhere. I wonder if the disused sidings at South Harrow may be a suitable location, a quick mooch on a Satellite image shows some houses nearby but also the total size of the site does look comparable to the current location. South Harrow is an essential site for the Picc line upgrade, starting with expansion to provide alternative stabling to allow a start on Northfields depot reconstruction anytime soon! |
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Post by nig on Jul 25, 2020 9:58:00 GMT
The notice states From this it is clear to me that the depot is going to move somewhere. I wonder if the disused sidings at South Harrow may be a suitable location, a quick mooch on a Satellite image shows some houses nearby but also the total size of the site does look comparable to the current location. South Harrow is an essential site for the Picc line upgrade, starting with expansion to provide alternative stabling to allow a start on Northfields depot reconstruction anytime soon! Also the sidings are not disused they stable 4 trains on there every night |
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Post by Chris L on Jul 25, 2020 9:58:01 GMT
Do the site plans show a significantly reduced location within the development? Given that the Depot is already over capacity and that there is a legal duty on TfL to preserve heritage items a larger space is required and this may be one way of getting it. |
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Post by christopher125 on Aug 5, 2020 10:49:14 GMT
LTM's Sam Mullins has some interesting things to say about this in a recent video Q+A with the Museum Friends, indeed it's the first question:
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