Circle train describers

[cetacean]

How is the "via" station on the Circle Line train describers chosen? Does each station's boards always show the same one for a particular direction, or are they up to the whims of signallers/drivers/whoever?

[Deleted]

It always goes on the DVA:

(ANTI-CLOCKWISE, from Tower Hill):
via Liverpool Street and King's Cross St Pancras
(from KXSP)
via King's Cross St Pancras to Baker Street
(from Baker Street)
via Baker Street and Paddington
(from Paddington)
via Paddington and High Street Kensington
(from HSK)
via High Street Kensington and Victoria
(from Victoria)
via Victoria and Embankment
(from Embankment)
via Embankment and Tower Hill - then it repeats.

(I think these are correct ... )

For a clockwise train, it is the same, just the stations are reversed.

Eg - via Liverpool Street and Tower Hill, via Tower Hill and Embankment etc

For the train describers, it just has:

via King's Cross
via Baker Street
via Paddington
via High Street Kensington
via Victoria etc etc

[cetacean]

I ask because the eastbound one at South Kensington says "via Liverpool Street", which is 13 stops that way and 14 the other. Or am I wrong to think it should confirm the direction of the train?

[trc666]

I always wonder why they don't show CLOCKWISE or ANTI-CLOCKWISE on the blinds to confirm direction of the train, rather than just CIRCLE LINE.

[Deleted]

*imagines clueless punters asking T/Ops and SAs, "which direction is clockwise?"*

*sighs*

[Chris M]

I've always wondered why the signs directing you to the appropriate platform don't use clockwise/anticlockwise instead of/as well as east/west/north/south bound. This would be particularly useful for journeys like Tower Hill to Paddington where my sense of geography would say I need to go westbound (i.e. via Victoria) but the quickest route is actually via Kings Cross, which (iirc) is described as northbound.

[c5]

awkward42 said:

I've always wondered why the signs directing you to the appropriate platform don't use clockwise/anticlockwise instead of/as well as east/west/north/south bound. This would be particularly useful for journeys like Tower Hill to Paddington where my sense of geography would say I need to go westbound (i.e. via Victoria) but the quickest route is actually via Kings Cross, which (iirc) is described as northbound.

On the District side (well from Gloucester Road through to Tower Hill) Eastbound is the Inner Rail and Westbound the Outer Rail. The rest of it is Eastbound - Outer and Westbound - Inner.

Also if you ever need to get anywhere in a hurry the Circle is not the best choice - unless one is shown on the DMI!

[Phil]

awkward42 said:

This would be particularly useful for journeys like Tower Hill to Paddington where ...... the quickest route is ...... described as northbound.

Are you sure? Last time I was at Tower Hill going to Paddington I nearly went the wrong way: I'm convinced Inner Rail circles are described as EASTBOUND (which of course, Districts ARE!!) there. Paddington being well west of Tower Hill nearly caused the brain cell to go on strike.

[Chris M]

It could well be eastbound, it was a good couple of years ago that I last took a train from Tower Hill

[Deleted]

The circle at Tower Hill is definitely described as Eastbound and Westbound, in conformity with the District.

And yes, I think clockwise and anti-clockwise would be more logical.

[Colin]

adw said:

And yes, I think clockwise and anti-clockwise would be more logical.

Unless you don't understand that analogy - my mates 15 year old daughter can only understand a digital clock ;D ;D

[Deleted]

Why not just use "roundabout" arrow symbols for the two directions?

[Deleted]

Far too simple ;D

[Deleted]

I'd really love to see them use symbols like that, and talk about clockwise and anti-clockwise trains.

[Deleted]

sweek said:

I'd really love to see them use symbols like that, and talk about clockwise and anti-clockwise trains.

The NCC status boards do show clockwise and anti-clockwise when talking about delays or suspensions. Now all we have to do is ask them to start using the signs too

[Phil]

But I agree that the clockwise thing is too difficult for the masses, especially underground. There's no reference points.

Just as an example, Paddington is my 'home' station which I have been using for years, obviously. Even now though when using the SSL, I consciously have to remind myself which platform is Eastbound etc. For some reason instinct tells me it is the opposite to the way it actually is. So for the average punter general directions (clockwise, westbound etc) are of limited use. Only the regulars can translate it into useful info. For the rest actual place names are what matters - at least you can look them up on the map!

[Deleted]

What's the objection to providing distinctive décor, livery, paintwork or whatever you want to call it for inner and outer platforms on the Circle? This could then be echoed on the trains themselves in some way.

I must have missed something very obvious or it'd've been done by now.

[Phil]

innocentabroad said:

I must have missed something very obvious or it'd've been done by now.

Not necessarily - I'd never thought of it (not that I matter) and I doubt anyone else has. You're a genius!!!

BUT........your idea will cost money........and it's not in the 30 year plan I guess..........so it could be implemented........(when??)..........oh dear!

[towerman]

Strange one at Liverpool St I/R this morning,Putney Bridge on the DMI but a Circle came in.

[c5]

If that was about 6.40am-ish that train was going to Wimbledon because of C Stock shortages

[Deleted]

Phil, it's re-assuring to know that the 30-year plan can't be changed ;D

Perhaps I could send TfL an e-mail about it. Since it always takes them the best part of a fortnight to reply, that would give you plenty of time to organise a comp to see who can best predict what they can come up with.

[mac]

Hallo!

I think that it would work with clockwise and anti-clockwise. Put some arrows on maps and the destination blinds and it is OK. Just look at the S-Bahn in Berlin. There is also a circle and on the maps it is always shown as clockwise and anti-clockwise. You also can see little arrows on maps and trains etc. which can help you. The only difference is that in Berlin the Circle is made of two lines: S41 Circle clockwise and S42 Circle anti-clockwise

[Deleted]

Yeah, it works fine in the rest of the world. And I really don't see how clockwise and anti-clockwise could be more confusing that what we have now. East and West are confusing, especially since it changes en-route. You could keep one "via" to make it even more clear, so:
"Clockwise Circle Line train via Paddington"

[Phil]

sweek said:

Yeah, it works fine in the rest of the world. And I really don't see how clockwise and anti-clockwise could be more confusing that what we have now. East and West are confusing, especially since it changes en-route. You could keep one "via" to make it even more clear, so:
"Clockwise Circle Line train via Paddington"

Absolutely true: for Circles!! The problem is that other lines use the tracks (well, actually they were there first...) and neither the Met, nor the District, nor the H&C go c/w or ac/w. District goes east/west etc. A traveller from Tower Hill to, say, Richmond would be clueless if told to catch an ac/w train.

[Deleted]

rbruce1314 said:

sweek said:

Yeah, it works fine in the rest of the world. And I really don't see how clockwise and anti-clockwise could be more confusing that what we have now. East and West are confusing, especially since it changes en-route. You could keep one "via" to make it even more clear, so:
"Clockwise Circle Line train via Paddington"

Absolutely true: for Circles!! The problem is that other lines use the tracks (well, actually they were there first...) and neither the Met, nor the District, nor the H&C go c/w or ac/w. District goes east/west etc. A traveller from Tower Hill to, say, Richmond would be clueless if told to catch an ac/w train.

Of course the District would still be announced as a Westbound District line train to Richmond. The station signs can say "Hammersmith and City and Circle lines, Eastbound / Clockwise" or something like that. I don't see why the two can't be combined.

The Berlin circle also shares its tracks with other lines, and can manage it just fine.

[Deleted]

As others have mentioned clockwise and anti-clockwise are used elsewhere in the world. Not rail related, but road related the Parisien carpark known as the Boulevard Periphique uses the terminology of inner and outer road - potentially confusing to those who usually drive on the left!

[Deleted]

innocentabroad said:

What's the objection to providing distinctive décor, livery, paintwork or whatever you want to call it for inner and outer platforms on the Circle? This could then be echoed on the trains themselves in some way.

I must have missed something very obvious or it'd've been done by now.

You could not paint the trains different colours. To even out wheel wear, they get reversed at intervals.

[Deleted]

I must admit that there have been times when I’ve needed to go clockwise and have been greeted with the choice of East or Westbound. The first thing that any tourist would look at would be the complete tube map and presumable they would decide clockwise or anticlockwise from that. I think LU need to invest in new signage for the circle along the lines of “Circle Line – Clockwise towards Victoria”. It works for the M25 travel reports on the radio.

[Deleted]

sydneynick said:

You could not paint the trains different colours. To even out wheel wear, they get reversed at intervals.

The Circle has enough operational problems without being restricted to only using certain coloured trains in certain directions. Personally I think clockwise and anti-clockwise signage would be appropriate, and the S-stock will probably have car side destination displays to help things along too.

Now, I'm just trying to remember how the circular Yamanote Line in Tokyo signs each direction.

[Deleted]

According to Wikipedia, "Trains which run clockwise are known as "soto-mawari" (外回り, outer circle) and counter-clockwise as "uchi-mawari" (内回り, inner circle). (Rail traffic in Japan mirrors road traffic, with trains traveling on the left."

I think the words inner and outer aren't very clear though, especially with so many tourists coming from countries where they drive on the right. Clocks run the same way everywhere.