PEDs

[Deleted]

I was on a Jubilee train a few weeks ago that stopped at London Bridge e/b and opened its doors, only for the pax to be confronted with the closed PEDs!

Trying my luck on the PED in front of me I couldn't quite get it open without wedging myself in place, so I went to another one that was already wedged open and pulled myself out, just in time to watch an SA run madly down to the headwall and open the PEDs manually.

Do the PEDs still fail a lot?

[dotmatrix]

theonekea said:

I was on a Jubilee train a few weeks ago that stopped at London Bridge e/b and opened its doors, only for the pax to be confronted with the closed PEDs!

Trying my luck on the PED in front of me I couldn't quite get it open without wedging myself in place, so I went to another one that was already wedged open and pulled myself out, just in time to watch an SA run madly down to the headwall and open the PEDs manually.

Do the PEDs still fail a lot?

It depends on the drivers. The train has to be EXACTLY, or really close to the stop mark, or the PED sensors don't work, causing them to fail to open, and causing a lot of frustration!!

[Deleted]

Holy thread revival batman!!

The PEDs haven't failed since, so I'm guessing that their reliability has improved markedly.

[Deleted]

Further to the previous post on drivers and PEDS not working - this is not the case.

A 1996 TS T/op will have to gain an 'Accurate Stop Light' in his cab to have any control over doors opening. If this light is not illuminated in the cab PEDS will not open. This means that both the PED suite and the on train doors will not activate. A driver has no control over PEDs that are not functioning properly. A member of station staff is needed to oversee operation, and if needed, defective PED doors must be staffed at all times (yes a member of staff at every 26 passenger doors on the suite for the platform to remain open). This only applies to a full suite that is defective, individual doors that are defective must be isolated and again, a member of staff must supervise operation.

This is in an ideal world - Jub line extension platforms are Cat B platforms - meaning they are all striaght. If a driver overshoots, he can observe the platform from the front cab as long as the drivers door is realistically aligned with the drivers door on a PED suite - to enable a driver to do this he/she would have to override the CSDE in the train, and manually operate the PEDs from the front position on the suite, using the drivers RKL220 key, ensuring no movement from the train.

In any situation involving unusual operation of PEDs, the Station Supervisor and relevant station staff must be notified.

[Deleted]

theonekea said:

Trying my luck on the PED in front of me I couldn't quite get it open

BTW unless there is an extreme emergency, it's not a good idea to open PEDs, contact the T/op via help point on train first, who can find out the situation and advise on necessary action.

[Tubeboy]

Broadly support what Alex has said.

However a ped suite consists of 28 doors. In practice, if two or more peds failed on the one suite, then USUALLY the platform will be isolated ie all trains will non-stop on that platform. The occurrence of all 28 doors failing AND being manned would never happen.

If a passenger operates the ERM-Emergency release mechanism, this will send an alarm to the control room where it will be acknowledged and dealt with as appropriate. Sorry, forgot to say the erm is the green switch on the train side of the peds which can be operated by a passenger [ideally in an emergency].

[Deleted]

Forgot to mention - as Tubeboy says, there are actually 28 doors on suite - 26 passenger and 2 drivers cabs. Even with seven cars there is still a remarkable amount of room left over on them. They are very long.

[Tubeboy]

While they are great at stopping drunks/suicides on the track, I think they are more trouble than their worth, rip them out!!!!!!!

[Deleted]

Nah .... keep 'em in!!!

IMO, they're what keeps the JLE character!

[Tubeboy]

NO!

It is the design!

[dotmatrix]

but aren't the drivers PEDs meant to be opened by hand, even though they are rarely used

[Deleted]

alexh said:

theonekea said:

Trying my luck on the PED in front of me I couldn't quite get it open

BTW unless there is an extreme emergency, it's not a good idea to open PEDs, contact the T/op via help point on train first, who can find out the situation and advise on necessary action.

That is a reasonable thing to do, and I suppose that in hindsight I should have done it.

Still, I've always wanted to try opening PEDs manually

alexh said:

Further to the previous post on drivers and PEDS not working - this is not the case.

A 1996 TS T/op will have to gain an 'Accurate Stop Light' in his cab to have any control over doors opening. If this light is not illuminated in the cab PEDS will not open. This means that both the PED suite and the on train doors will not activate.

Then clearly there was some other defect with them, because the train doors opened without trouble, while every single set of PEDs remained firmly shut.

alexh said:

A driver has no control over PEDs that are not functioning properly. A member of station staff is needed to oversee operation, and if needed, defective PED doors must be staffed at all times (yes a member of staff at every 26 passenger doors on the suite for the platform to remain open). This only applies to a full suite that is defective, individual doors that are defective must be isolated and again, a member of staff must supervise operation.

Good lord! I certainly hope that a full set of PEDs has never failed...

alexh said:

This is in an ideal world - Jub line extension platforms are Cat B platforms - meaning they are all striaght.

Really? Some of them seem to be curved inwards slightly.

alexh said:

If a driver overshoots, he can observe the platform from the front cab as long as the drivers door is realistically aligned with the drivers door on a PED suite - to enable a driver to do this he/she would have to override the CSDE in the train, and manually operate the PEDs from the front position on the suite, using the drivers RKL220 key, ensuring no movement from the train.

That was not what happened in my experience - the SA ran madly down to the headwall, opened a panel and operated the PEDs manually that way. I never once saw the T/Op leave the cab.

[Deleted]

theonekea said:

Then clearly there was some other defect with them, because the train doors opened without trouble, while every single set of PEDs remained firmly shut.

Sounds like a PAC fault (Platform Automatic Commicator) to me - if the ATE (Automatic Train Equipment) had recognised the accurate stop, and allowed the train doors to open the problem couldn't have been with that.

As for the curved doors, whilst I admit I haven't been on the platforms on every JLE station, I was informed on my PED training that all 17 PED suites are straight. I'll keep an eye out on my next trip along

[dotmatrix]

alexh said:

As for the curved doors, whilst I admit I haven't been on the platforms on every JLE station, I was informed on my PED training that all 17 PED suites are straight. I'll keep an eye out on my next trip along

Some are curved. Westminster I think, and, erm, London bridge, but very slightly.

[version3point1]

dotmatrix said:

but aren't the drivers PEDs meant to be opened by hand, even though they are rarely used

There's an isolated switch panel located at about head level on the T/Op's side of the PED once he's got the cab door open.

[Deleted]

dotmatrix said:

alexh said:

As for the curved doors, whilst I admit I haven't been on the platforms on every JLE station, I was informed on my PED training that all 17 PED suites are straight. I'll keep an eye out on my next trip along

Some are curved. Westminster I think, and, erm, London bridge, but very slightly.

This pic shows the curves of Westminster's PEDs

flickr.com/photos/stephenk1977/219505196/in/set-1617237/

The curve radii on the JLE had to be more than 1000m due to HSE regulations.

[dotmatrix]

ah, ok then. Have you seen Canary Wharfs PEDs?
They have started to seem out of place, as if they have been moved.

[Deleted]

stephenk said:

This pic shows the curves of Westminster's PEDs

flickr.com/photos/stephenk1977/219505196/in/set-1617237/

Ah ha - very good Stephen K! That is a definate curve. Very good pic BTW

[Tubeboy]

Thats a great picture Stephenk.

[dotmatrix]

yes, it is!

Does anyone know if PEDs are going to be installed on such stations as Green Park, where they haven't been added?

[Deleted]

It's only stations on the JLE that have PEDs.

Speaking of which, today while at one of the JLE stations ( I forget which ... maybe Southwark), you had the train doors shut (and the train obviously stayed stationary, because the PEDs weren't shut), then a voice said '' Please do NOT obstruct the doors! Stand clear please! Please do NOT obstruct the doors! Stand clear please! '' - was this from the PED unit itself??

It certainly wasn't broadcast over the station PA.

[Deleted]

sturdjos said:

Speaking of which, today while at one of the JLE stations ( I forget which ... maybe Southwark), you had the train doors shut (and the train obviously stayed stationary, because the PEDs weren't shut), then a voice said '' Please do NOT obstruct the doors! Stand clear please! Please do NOT obstruct the doors! Stand clear please! '' - was this from the PED unit itself??

It certainly wasn't broadcast over the station PA.

Yep! If anyone attempts to hold a PED, the system automatically broadcasts that message. Usually VERY effective it is too, normally embarrasing the punter who has attempted to hold open the doors!

[Tubeboy]

Yes the ped suite broadcasts it, when a door is held open for 15+ seconds.

[Deleted]

It sounds like the voice that used to introduce ITN news - I wouldn't be surprised if it was him, digitalized.

[Tubeboy]

Re the voice, it sounds very similar/the same as the voice in the hydraulic lifts on the JLE.

[Deleted]

Mm - I did indeed (although not having heard the lifts!!) wonder if it was from a lift door somewhere!

(Me not having looked round to see if the PEDs were shut at that point )

Ahh well - thanks for answering my query, gents

[yellowsignal]

tubeboy said:

While they are great at stopping drunks/suicides on the track, I think they are more trouble than their worth, rip them out!!!!!!!

IIRC they were put in due to the need to manage airflows and dust etc.

[Tubeboy]

Ventilation and air management, yes. Added benefit is eradicating one-unders.

[dotmatrix]

tubeboy said:

Ventilation and air management, yes. Added benefit is eradicating one-unders.

And to reduce suction as the train pulls out. I hear in an enclosed area, it can pull you almost 50m into the tunnel on the jubbly. But this isn't confirmed (for obvious reasons).

[Tubeboy]

Is that so? ;D

Bloody hell! ;D