Tom
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Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Aug 3, 2006 20:24:03 GMT
Well, the S stock is derived from Stockholm's C20, and I have a set of C20 Orientation Course textbooks here, if Metronet want to do the translation!
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prjb
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LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
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Post by prjb on Aug 4, 2006 21:52:01 GMT
All the manuals are being looked at already as well as the TNA and resourcing requirements. What is TNA? I'm so sorry, I normally remember to do this! TNA is indeed a training needs analysis.
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prjb
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LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
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Post by prjb on Aug 4, 2006 21:59:15 GMT
I've just had another thought about the whole can ventilation issue (yes, I know, yawns all round!) Will the S stock have a cab fan heater, and if so will it be able to blow unheated air, as on the D stocks? That would give some air movement without aircon for those that want it. A response as promised! The 09ts will have a cab setting marked up as emergency vent. This setting will allow unconditioned air to be blown into the cab, it will be filtered (so no tunnel dirt) but the air con will not operate. Whilst it is marked emergency vent it can be used at anytime (no seals etc). Apparently we are too early in the design for 'S' to know what the exact arrangements are for the cab. I will put my neck on the line here though and say that it is a dead cert that 'S' will get this or an equivalent feature.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2006 1:37:43 GMT
A response as promised! The 09ts will have a cab setting marked up as emergency vent. This setting will allow unconditioned air to be blown into the cab, it will be filtered (so no tunnel dirt) but the air con will not operate. Whilst it is marked emergency vent it can be used at anytime (no seals etc). Apparently we are too early in the design for 'S' to know what the exact arrangements are for the cab. I will put my neck on the line here though and say that it is a dead cert that 'S' will get this or an equivalent feature. There you go - the detractors of A/C are satisfied Change of direction: Will Ealing Common and Upminster share in medium and heavy maintenance duties of the S stock, or will Neasden become the supreme depot where all heavy work is done, and the former two District depots relegated to cleaning and light maintenance? Also, will there be any major changes to the responsibilities of the T/Ops and I/Ops? With the need for specialized stock knowledge removed, all that is left to shuffle a driver to another line is route knowledge - how much will this change the way T/Ops and I/Ops do their jobs on the SSL?
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Post by c5 on Aug 6, 2006 9:19:59 GMT
I believe that the onky depots for maintenance work will be Upminster and Neasden. Major building work starts very soon at Neasden. Also, from next year Metronet SSL fleet staff will transfer accross to Bombardier.
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prjb
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LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
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Post by prjb on Aug 6, 2006 10:37:14 GMT
Will Ealing Common and Upminster share in medium and heavy maintenance duties of the S stock, or will Neasden become the supreme depot where all heavy work is done, and the former two District depots relegated to cleaning and light maintenance? I am not sure what the depot strategy is, but I will enquire with my colleague on Monday. Also, will there be any major changes to the responsibilities of the T/Ops and I/Ops? With the need for specialized stock knowledge removed, all that is left to shuffle a driver to another line is route knowledge - how much will this change the way T/Ops and I/Ops do their jobs on the SSL? I don't envisage too many changes in that respect. I'Ops will continue to carry out road training on a line basis. Due to the size of the SSR network there will also still be a need for I'Op Stock Instructors at all locations, although with one stock training flexibility is increased.
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prjb
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LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
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Post by prjb on Aug 6, 2006 10:39:32 GMT
from next year Metronet SSL fleet staff will transfer accross to Bombardier. That's not certain by any means.
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Post by c5 on Aug 6, 2006 11:40:59 GMT
from next year Metronet SSL fleet staff will transfer accross to Bombardier. That's not certain by any means. I was going on what the Train Tech who watches the step-backs ws saying
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Post by dave1 on Aug 7, 2006 20:51:53 GMT
:)Hello all im a new member here and i have been watching this particular thread for some time now. I have a couple of questions i need to ask about the SSL upgrade. 1. Is it confirmed that the T-Cup will be enforced? 2. Has there been any new Designs of the S stock and if so could anyone pm the designs to me. Thanks in advance 3. Vandalism....What are they going to do about this. Because the S Stock is going to be some expensive kit and i wouldnt want vandals destroying the ambience and spraying graffiti all over it. Will sidings at ricky, uxbridge, and the wembley sidings have sheds to protect them? 4. Will all of the stock have the same moquette or will they have different moquettes for different lines? Also will there be the same ratio of transverse seats and longitudal seats? as i have been reading the post you have made it seems transverse is poplular. 5. Has any technical data such as top speed and braking speeds been released for the s stock? thanks in advance
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prjb
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LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
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Post by prjb on Aug 7, 2006 21:27:32 GMT
:)Hello all im a new member here and i have been watching this particular thread for some time now. I have a couple of questions i need to ask about the SSL upgrade. Hello and welcome! 1. Is it confirmed that the T-Cup will be enforced? No but it is under consideration. 2. Has there been any new Designs of the S stock and if so could anyone pm the designs to me. Thanks in advance There are extremely advanced designs for 'S' Stock but unfortunately I cannot post them without prior consent. When I have new designs that I am able to post, I will put them here first. Page four of this thread is the latest I can give you right now. 3. Vandalism....What are they going to do about this. Because the S Stock is going to be some expensive kit and i wouldnt want vandals destroying the ambience and spraying graffiti all over it. Will sidings at ricky, uxbridge, and the wembley sidings have sheds to protect them? 'S' Stock has been designed from the outset with anti-vandal materials and preventative design. As for Metronets stabling strategy, I doubt they are going to enclose out stabling points. Security of all LU property is something that is constantly being reviewed. 4. Will all of the stock have the same moquette or will they have different moquettes for different lines? Also will there be the same ratio of transverse seats and longitudal seats? as i have been reading the post you have made it seems transverse is poplular. As I said, the latest layout I can post is available on page four of this thread. Moquette designs are currently being considered and a final decision on the overall fleet has not yet been made. We have just brought in an outside consultant on the LU team to look at this area. 5. Has any technical data such as top speed and braking speeds been released for the s stock? Not to the general public no. As I have said elsewhere, Bombardier are quite sensitive about what information is given out.
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Post by markextube on Aug 8, 2006 12:15:53 GMT
After spending many weeks looking over the various comments and ideas about air con i thought it was about time i added mine lol.
I used to work on the northern as a guard and driver. On the 56', 59', 62' and finally on the 95' stock. As you all know the 56-62 did not have air con and in the drivers cab there were small windows which opened and in the passenger saloon they also had droplights (droplites)?. Anyway...my point from experience.
The 56-59 in the winter were usually after a while, warmish depending on the unit and quite comfortable, re temp wise. In the summer depending on the temp i would open the cab windows and possibly the front cab door to allow air in. Whether it was fresh clean or dirty is besides the point, it was cooler moving air. I and many other staff were happy with that to a point and had been for decades.
In the passenger saloon yes it did get hot but there was a great breeze from all the open windows of course while the train was moving but it did become unbearable when the train had stopped.
So onto air con. Cabs...I looked forward to the introduction of the 95's with the comfortable seating and air con etc. Then they arrived...The air con is great to a certain extent while you're in the tunnel but when you first switch it on it has a stale smelly sock smell,
Is this healthy?
For the first half hour or so the sir con is great but then becomes slightly stale and then becomes either too cold or lacks effect. Now when i finally emerged into the open what was the first thing i did? I opened the door. Why? because the outside air is fresher and always will be resulting in making me more alert as air con can have the effect of making you a little dreary and feeling clammy.
Ever flown on the plane?
OK now saloon. On the 95/96 there are little slidy buttons that give the passenger the impression they do something. In fact they do b*gger all. Open a unit with your J key and youll see the button is attached to a very small flap which does not cover or open anything its a con. And from experience these vents do not have half the breeze as the old droplites. Secondly the forced ventilation is noisy, dirty and doesnt do anything except blows hot air around. These forced air units were or still are considered to be effective.
So tell me if they are so effective why are passengers complaining of unbearable conditions on these stocks?
And in the winter forget the heat as most of them dont work efficiently as the original under seat heating units.
Finally lol. There is nothing wrong or unsafe about having a window in the cab door or side, which opens three inches or so for any driver who prefers fresh air to enter thier cab when in the open. This would not effect the air con and could be of mini droplite design as on the refurb A60.
If this is unsafe back it up with suitable evidence.
Lastly on this subject if it were unsafe all the droplites on the passenger saloons of the A60 would now be sealed over as from the passengers view they do not have control over the operation of the train so in a way to them it is automatic. To a driver who is trained and responsible an accident would never occur unless you are totally stupid and wishing to cause self harm and if anything were to happen drivers have direct control over stopping the train if they so wished.
Passenger saloon air con has been around for many years now on the mainline and from experience using these services many times air con is a god send but only when it works efficiently! I bet the mainline companies had discussion like these. And the result? not a completley flawless system. The air con can work great at times but ive been on many triains were it is stale, hot and not working or too cold! They also have wondows which can be opened by J DOOR KEY If they need to in an emergency.
I think its about time common sense and experience prevails instead of the company robot talk, which is now becoming evident othewise we will nere get anything right and the same mistakes will be repeated. Air con is ok when it works and is welcomed on public transport. It will break down as it is a machine. Forced air non air con doesnt work so this as a back up will be unaffective as proven on the swealtering 92' 95' and 96 stock. There is no reason to not have locked opening windows for last resort use as they are in modern stocks which have passed health and safety requirments. Passengers just want a cooler train be it air con or not. They say yes to air con as they feel it would be the answer to todays unbearable situation. If there were other ways of cooling the trains down they would naturally say yes to this also.
So i cant see what all the fuss is about. Have air con, accept it will break down, have locked windows when needed if the back up fails, which on occasions it will. Have a small window in the cab or open ventilation pipe as in cars they are not unsafe. the result all is happy, the paraniod will feel safe and it will pass health and safety. And about cost. If you can afford fancy led displays, automatic announcments, mock up trains etc you can afford opening windows for people who want to do the natural thing, which is to breath.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2006 21:54:03 GMT
yes but: on an HST they have the vestibule doors that automatically closed, making an air curtain and keeping noise out. This means that the climate control works very efficiently. Using a 225 today, the aircon worked very well and kept us cool but turned off when it was cold enough. On the way back on another 225 the aircon in our carriage didn't work and it was very hot. By the time we got to Doncaster from Leeds the whole carriage was empty bar another 4 people. At one point we put a bottle in the sliding doors to stop it closing to just bring in more air, but more noise, you can't win! The heat was almost unbearable but it was quite good as the outgoing journey was at 6 that morning from Kings Cross and on the way back at 5, the heat sent us asleep. Great. Aircon works very well if in seperated areas that are only opened when necessary. Perhaps on the SSL, there could be the door open buttons in operation to keep it cool. [by the way i was coming back from the 5th day of the test match ]
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Post by markextube on Aug 8, 2006 22:10:59 GMT
lol all respect but im not sure what point your trying to make though it does only repeat my point of what happens in reality with relying too much on machines under the premise it will be extremly efficient. If air con units were to be checked at least three times a week then the possibilites of them braking down would be minimal. But in reality, well in this country anyway i don't think they would be checked that often.
Regarding the mainline. I was talking mainly about the air con on the desiros and such on south west trains. These more modern stocks have the latest units of them but still occasionally they break down or the efficiency is'nt up to scratch.
As i said before air con is a good idea and welcomed, but we need to get our heads out of the sand and learn from experience of many and accept they will break down so a good back up is neccessary. This also could break down so usually locked windows should be provided for a last easy resort to stop any possibility of a re-occurance of past incidents, which in the future will happen. Straight forward really.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Aug 8, 2006 22:15:42 GMT
That's not certain by any means. I was going on what the Train Tech who watches the step-backs ws saying I'm not saying your wrong, just that it isn't a certainty. I think it will probably happen but there have been some detractors from what I understand.
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prjb
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LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
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Post by prjb on Aug 8, 2006 22:19:05 GMT
Will Ealing Common and Upminster share in medium and heavy maintenance duties of the S stock, or will Neasden become the supreme depot where all heavy work is done, and the former two District depots relegated to cleaning and light maintenance? It seems that the current plan is for Neasden to carry out all the heavy work with the others relegated as you say to light maintenance and/or cleaning. In my personal opinion, Metronet's whole depot strategy seems to be 'fluid' ( ahem! ;D ) at the moment.
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prjb
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LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
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Post by prjb on Aug 8, 2006 23:03:40 GMT
After spending many weeks looking over the various comments and ideas about air con i thought it was about time i added mine lol. I used to work on the northern as a guard and driver. On the 56', 59', 62' and finally on the 95' stock. As you all know the 56-62 did not have air con and in the drivers cab there were small windows which opened and in the passenger saloon they also had droplights (droplites)?. Anyway...my point from experience. The 56-59 in the winter were usually after a while, warmish depending on the unit and quite comfortable, re temp wise. In the summer depending on the temp i would open the cab windows and possibly the front cab door to allow air in. Whether it was fresh clean or dirty is besides the point, it was cooler moving air. I and many other staff were happy with that to a point and had been for decades. In the passenger saloon yes it did get hot but there was a great breeze from all the open windows of course while the train was moving but it did become unbearable when the train had stopped. I was also a guard and driver on the 56/59/62 but didn't do what you describe here. I would never open the front door and only ever opened the drop lights when it was absolutely necessary. I just couldn't stand the tunnel dirt and brake dust which to me certainly wasn't besides the point. Horses for courses and all that. I wasn't happy with it but put up with it because there was no viable alternative available. So onto air con. Cabs...I looked forward to the introduction of the 95's with the comfortable seating and air con etc. Then they arrived...The air con is great to a certain extent while you're in the tunnel but when you first switch it on it has a stale smelly sock smell, Is this healthy? For the first half hour or so the sir con is great but then becomes slightly stale and then becomes either too cold or lacks effect. Now when i finally emerged into the open what was the first thing i did? I opened the door. Why? because the outside air is fresher and always will be resulting in making me more alert as air con can have the effect of making you a little dreary and feeling clammy. Ever flown on the plane? The air con on the 09 will run for 30 minutes after the cab being shutdown and on 'S' it will remain on all the time and mimic the leading cabs temperature. This should alleviate the issue of 'start up' smells. The filters are more modern and easily accessible for routine maintenance. 09ts has an emergency vent option to supply fresh air without air con and as I have said I doubt 'S' will lack this feature. OK now saloon. On the 95/96 there are little slidy buttons that give the passenger the impression they do something. In fact they do b*gger all. Open a unit with your J key and youll see the button is attached to a very small flap which does not cover or open anything its a con. And from experience these vents do not have half the breeze as the old droplites. Secondly the forced ventilation is noisy, dirty and doesnt do anything except blows hot air around. These forced air units were or still are considered to be effective. So tell me if they are so effective why are passengers complaining of unbearable conditions on these stocks? Because forced air in the past has not been positioned in the optimum locations and will not overcome the extreme temperatures we are experiencing. Whether it's an open window or a vent, if it isn't air con then it isn't going to reduce the temperature. Which is why as a guard I used to roast in the saloon of a 59 in summer. And in the winter forget the heat as most of them dont work efficiently as the original under seat heating units. When you say original, if you mean the 59 stock units I thought they were terrible. Finally lol. There is nothing wrong or unsafe about having a window in the cab door or side, which opens three inches or so for any driver who prefers fresh air to enter thier cab when in the open. This would not effect the air con and could be of mini droplite design as on the refurb A60. If this is unsafe back it up with suitable evidence. Both LU and Metronet are doind just that, gathering evidence. Whilst I personally think opening windows are a waste of time, I am open minded on the subject but don't believe that these windows will pass any kind of H&S examination or risk assessment. Lastly on this subject if it were unsafe all the droplites on the passenger saloons of the A60 would now be sealed over as from the passengers view they do not have control over the operation of the train so in a way to them it is automatic. To a driver who is trained and responsible an accident would never occur unless you are totally stupid and wishing to cause self harm and if anything were to happen drivers have direct control over stopping the train if they so wished. 'A' Stock were designed in the 1950's and would not pass by todays standard. The windows are there because the trains are not air conditioned. We have done this one to death but it is wrong to say that drivers need to be totally stupid to have an accident, we had a pretty good one fall out of his own train. On ATO a driver would not have control over stopping the train if they injured themselves, they won't have a handle to drop. Passenger saloon air con has been around for many years now on the mainline and from experience using these services many times air con is a god send but only when it works efficiently! I bet the mainline companies had discussion like these. And the result? not a completley flawless system. The air con can work great at times but ive been on many triains were it is stale, hot and not working or too cold! They also have wondows which can be opened by J DOOR KEY If they need to in an emergency. We have done this one to death a bit too, opening windows on an OPO train are going to be of no benefit. The train has a fallback system and LU are getting better at detraining quickly. We even have an emergency detrainment squad who get deployed in the event of a stalled train. When my train has been stalled in the tunnel, I have always been up to my neck in it and would not have had time to walk back opening hundreds of windows. If there are enough staff to walk through opening windows then there are enough staff to effect a detrainment and get the customers off the train into the open air rather than breathing at open windows with a trickle of air coming in. I think its about time common sense and experience prevails instead of the company robot talk, which is now becoming evident othewise we will nere get anything right and the same mistakes will be repeated. Air con is ok when it works and is welcomed on public transport. It will break down as it is a machine. Forced air non air con doesnt work so this as a back up will be unaffective as proven on the swealtering 92' 95' and 96 stock. There is no reason to not have locked opening windows for last resort use as they are in modern stocks which have passed health and safety requirments. Passengers just want a cooler train be it air con or not. They say yes to air con as they feel it would be the answer to todays unbearable situation. If there were other ways of cooling the trains down they would naturally say yes to this also. We are applying common sense and as for the robot comment, I and my colleagues have a wealth of operational experience in all railway disciplines and we work alongside some highly qualified non operational personnel (Engineers etc). I just don't agree with you, that doesn't mean I am a robot or not applying common sense. So i cant see what all the fuss is about. Have air con, accept it will break down, have locked windows when needed if the back up fails, which on occasions it will. Have a small window in the cab or open ventilation pipe as in cars they are not unsafe. the result all is happy, the paraniod will feel safe and it will pass health and safety. And about cost. If you can afford fancy led displays, automatic announcments, mock up trains etc you can afford opening windows for people who want to do the natural thing, which is to breath. So you want air con, are happy with a back up system, but also want a back up for the back up in the form of opening windows that no one will have the time to walk through and open? We had ventilation pipes in unrefurbished 'C' Stock and quite frankly they were awful. LED displays and automatic annoucements cannot be considered to be in any way 'fancy'. We are governed by RVAR which demand both audible and visual annoucements, and quite frankly in todays world do not cost that much in the grand scheme of things. A mock-up is an essential tool in meeting CAT, and on VLU was made from the strain guage car which had to be built for manufacturer testing. So, again not a huge amount when looking at the whole cost. As for breathing, I will put my neck on the line here and make an assurance that we will not prohibit this activity on 'S'. Although, maybe we could charge and raise some extra revenue! ;D
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Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on Aug 9, 2006 9:40:30 GMT
Let's get the facts straight first. Station staff, when in ticket offices / control rooms / messrooms etc do have air conditioning. Most line control rooms and signal cabins have either a fully installed air conditioning system, or at the very least a portable one. Most of these areas have to have such equipment to protect the electricals installed within (computers etc). Yes there are exceptions to this paragraph, but not many I can assure you. Moving on to the rest of your post, I don't believe anyone has posted in this thread that drivers do not want opening doors or windows - in fact if you re-read the last few pages, it's quite the opposite. prjb has clearly stated that the cab doors will not allow movement when they are open - don't forget that this train is being designed with ATO in mind, so it is absolutely right that the train cannot be moved with the cab doors open. He has also quite clearly stated that the request to re-visit the fitting of a cab window is being examined by the engineers, but that it is their belief (the engineers) that the likes of HSE etc will 'knock it back'. Given that we won't be able to open the cab door whilst moving, and the probability of no window, how do you propose I or my colleagues should spend around an hour and a half in a hot cab trying to concentrate on signals, platform edges etc with no air of any kind entering the cab? Everyday that i've had a refurb D stock this summer, i've found the driving experience much more pleasurable - so I for one will be looking forward to the day when the whole fleet has air conditioned cabs. As for this bit: Or have they grown so soft that they must do their work in a cosy little cotton-wool cabin free from all life's hassles and be mollycoddled from start to finish? It's called progress. You know the more I see of this thread, the more i'm convinced that most objectors can't accept change / progress. In the main, as I posted earlier in this thread, the drivers that moan about air con the most are the east end one's. The ones who've been on the job since before D stock's were on the drawing board. The ones who also whine on about not liking the DVA announcements (so they unofficially cut it out). They just can't accept change / progress.
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Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
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Post by Phil on Aug 9, 2006 11:52:18 GMT
WARNING
Guys, this thread is coming close to getting to be a rant. Please can we stop the 'old days/current times' business and get back to letting prjb what still needs to be represented to the powers-that-be.
Thanks
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Post by CSLR on Aug 9, 2006 13:19:24 GMT
You will notice a distinct lack of postings by me regarding the contentious issue of air-conditioning. It is a subject that has caused much controversy on this forum and some very heated ( ) views. I would like to make a couple of observations; not about the rights of wrongs of air-conditioning versus opening windows, but about the way that the design decisions appear to have been made up to now, and the way in which this might possibly be handled from here. Beyond the point that nobody appears to like being told what is best for them, the next area of grievance is the fact that many feel that they have not been consulted properly on the issue. Some suggest that they have been questioned or polled; others say that they have not. Where questions have been asked, just as much damage can be done if the questions are not framed properly. You will get completely different answers if you ask:- a) Would you like air-conditioning in your cab? b) Would you like to control how fresh air is blown into your cab? c) Would you like air from the tunnels blowing into your cab? d) Would you prefer outside air blown into your cab or would you prefer air-conditioning? Each will get a different answer and, because every one of those questions is loaded (did you notice that?), you will get a completely different set of averages if you ask each question to a different group of people. You will also get a different result if you ask each question separately to the same group at different times. AND, those are only four possible variations; there are lots of different ways that this could be asked! Because this is their working environment, T/Os obviously want some control over it, and the general mood (as reflected through this forum) appears to be that they do not feel that anybody with any clout is listening - other than prjb. If the impression given to staff is that a decision has been made above their heads, there will be dissatisfaction. The correspondence in this forum has shown that this is perceived, by those who work in this environment, as one of the most important issues in the design (prjb has even acknowledged that point). It would now be sensible for Metronet, Tfl, etc to take note and to consider exactly how they can be seen to take on board the wishes of those who work up-front while complying with legislative requirements. At the end of the day, it is may be that nothing will be changed from the current plans; nevertheless, it is a PR exercise that really should take place. I think that, in this instance, the fact that there has been consultation with union representatives on the matter will not in itself clear the air. While we can draw aspects of this discussion to a close in this forum, it will not make any of the underlying problems go away. I think that the issues that have been highlighted have certainly exposed the high level of feeling that there is on this matter and that should be tackled.
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 9, 2006 21:38:44 GMT
I dont know about other lines, but on the Northern, the offside cab door is open as well as the a/c being on full blast [open air section that is]
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Post by markextube on Aug 10, 2006 19:38:52 GMT
Thank you prjb for your reponse much appreciated. Apologise if i came across a bit arrogant but i do get a bit fed up with how everything and everybody is wrapped up in cotton wool just in case they have a heart attack from sneezing lol. Especially in this day and age of supposed era of improvement in everything, which seema more controlled then ever before. By the way i'm 32.
I look forward to seeing the more up to date designs for the S stock and reading some of the final decisions regarding the ventilation, seating etc.
Ill keep this short but regarding the tunnele dust. Unfortunatly it's all around us when travelling on the underground and will be for a very long time unless LUL decide to have a major go at reducing it through major cleaning. I agree to a certain amount it can be reduced by keeping the front cab door closed but still you used to get covered in it no matter what.
I also agree with the previous thread that it comes with the job and on the other hand passengers have no choice in the matter, they breath it and get covered in it. So when it comes to a trained train operator to prefer air froim the outside because they find it more comfortable instead of air con, what difference is there from a passenger who is also supposed to be covered by simliar health and safety and also comfort standards. Anyway end of it there.
When it comes down to it it's the poeple who control the yes and no rather than it can not be done or it's dangerous.
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Post by stanmorek on Aug 13, 2006 9:48:34 GMT
Well, are the public aware of this 'danger' to them. If not, why not? It does not really matter wether train crews or other LUL staff are exposed to it or not. They chose the job and therefore must put up with it like it or not. They are not covered by factories acts [on trains at least] so the question is immaterial. Just like to point out that the Health & Safety At Work Act has been with us since 1974 and more applicable than the Factories Act in this case. Section 2 says that an employer has to take reasonable steps to prevent an employee from being exposed to risks to their health and safety. Employers found to be in breach of this are committing a criminal offence. What's more the injured party can then sue them for compensation in the civil courts.
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
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Post by Ben on Aug 13, 2006 13:37:29 GMT
I think the point some people are making is theres reasonable, then theres OTT.
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Post by markextube on Aug 15, 2006 16:50:26 GMT
My eyes have suddenly glazed over.......
Just wondering will there be a designated piece of apparatus for side by side direct train transfer, double leaf door to double leaf door? If ever there were a incident that necessitated this.
As you know in the past basic seats and doors have been used, which aren't the most satisfactory items.
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Post by markextube on Aug 16, 2006 20:18:49 GMT
Thank you but i'm already aware of the procedure.
My question asked if there would be a designated piece of equipment, which is designed for sole use for side by side train to train transfer. With the new stock expected and all......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 9:44:03 GMT
Ah. Here's the catch. Do they open, or are they glued shut? There is no such word as "winderful", Hindenburg. But there are plastic seats!
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 23, 2006 23:19:25 GMT
Prjb...the 'selective close' facility you speak of; in what way would it be differant? I can only think of 'door close' buttons as an alternative to not all of them opening, but then how would a customer who wishes to alight or exit re-open the door?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 23, 2006 23:44:41 GMT
The only thing I can think of would be a door toggle button (for want of a better description) - i.e. when it was activated (by the driver) then pushing it would open the door if closed but close it if it is open.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2006 8:30:28 GMT
will the doors have the buttons like the 95 stock that means that the doors can be opened by a customer if they want it. If I remember right, the 92 has close buttons as well. Are these going to be used or are they going to abandoned like the D stock refurb.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2006 8:43:43 GMT
will the doors have the buttons like the 95 stock that means that the doors can be opened by a customer if they want it. If I remember right, the 92 has close buttons as well. Are these going to be used or are they going to abandoned like the D stock refurb. As far as I know there will be no door open buttons. There isn't much need for them on the Victoria Line as it is underground, and very busy.
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