prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
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Post by prjb on Jul 13, 2007 19:21:33 GMT
We can't just leave it to the drivers to do this because on stocks with selective close currently it is very rarely used even in the coldest winter. This may be because Ashfield House now tell new drivers that it isn't used any more. That is nothing short of scandalous, it was one of my bug bears as both a driver and DMT that staff didn't use this feature for the benefit of their passengers. It comes to something when you have to rely on decent I'Ops showing new staff the best practices rather than the trainers doing it in the first place.
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Post by District Dave on Jul 13, 2007 19:26:00 GMT
This may be because Ashfield House now tell new drivers that it isn't used any more. That is nothing short of scandalous, it was one of my bug bears as both a driver and DMT that staff didn't use this feature for the benefit of their passengers. It comes to something when you have to rely on decent I'Ops showing new staff the best practices rather than the trainers doing it in the first place. But that's why us mere I/Ops get paid £xxx less than our Arsefilled House colleagues but still understand the concept of 'best practice' better than they, but are still considered unworthy for advancement........
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prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
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Post by prjb on Jul 13, 2007 19:38:49 GMT
That is nothing short of scandalous, it was one of my bug bears as both a driver and DMT that staff didn't use this feature for the benefit of their passengers. It comes to something when you have to rely on decent I'Ops showing new staff the best practices rather than the trainers doing it in the first place. But that's why us mere I/Ops get paid £xxx less than our Arsefilled House colleagues but still understand the concept of 'best practice' better than they, but are still considered unworthy for advancement........ ....and that is nothing short of scandalous either. What is our railway coming to?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2007 3:51:04 GMT
Will there be any indication to a passenger approaching a train from the outside that a door has auto-closed and that the passenger can then open it? Yes, the door open buttons will be illuminated both internally and externally. Internally the CIS will also be making an announcement periodically. I think it would be better to put lights on the door - one green light, matched by green buttons, for indicating an unlocked door and reopening an auto-closed door, and one red light, with unlit buttons, for a door that is locked out of use by the J-key-secured door cut-out. If the doors are closed by the driver then they will close normally and this will be preceeded by audible and visual indications. I also think your getting your butterfly cocks and your porter buttons mixed up here?! When the train is placed in platform close mode the auto close function will be inhibited and all doors will remain open until manually closed (as today). We don't really want the auto close feature to operate and then keep the doors closed in this scenario in case this traps passengers inside which may result in staff being subjected to abuse/assault. The doors will be able to be closed manually from inside or outside the train, which is another good reason not to close customers in, as staff would then be in a closed car with potentially angry customers. That makes sense, but what is "platform close" mode? I don't see any mentions of this mode in earlier reponses. Again, I think when you state butterfly cocks you actually mean porter buttons? 'S' Stock will not be featuring porter buttons as we know them today (mainly due to not having car ends or anywhere inconspicuous to place them!). There will be an alternative system in place but I do not want to discuss this publically (LU staff can PM though). Interesting. The CIS will also be making annoucements and the driver has the option to manually close both internally and externally, in addition before walking back the driver can view the saloon CCTV system. Even more interesting. I wonder what the Metronet bods have come up with then to deal with detrainment. What happens when a driver closes the doors at the same instant as, or within the time it takes for a door to open, after a passenger hits the button to re-open an auto-closed door? Driver close/open always takes priority, don't forget that obstacle detection will be available too. It may be that drivers are advised to reopen and then close if this proves to be a problem, just as they are advised with selective close on some stocks today. How would they be advised? Would the CIS show a message?
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prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
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Post by prjb on Jul 14, 2007 11:43:49 GMT
The door buttons will illuminate when available and extinguish when they are not, they will also feature an 'out of service' indication too. Platform close mode is best described as the new 'porter button' equivalent. I don't mean to be evasive about this feature but it defeats the whole point of making this mode non-public facing if I then begin to discuss it on a public forum! I hope you understand that it is not you personally I am trying to side step but rather the public at large. In addition the way this mode works needs to be kept reasonably private in order to ensure that staff cannot be put in a vunerable position (ie; thugs close the doors on driver/station staff in orderto trap them). I hope you understand? WRT advising customers when doors are closing, there will be audible and visual indaications from both the CIS and local indications at the doorways (an easily recognisable sign/image).
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Post by compsci on Jul 14, 2007 16:48:33 GMT
Will the announcements that the doors are auto closing be made in such a way that anyone outside the train will be aware of what is happening? It strikes me that people outside the doors are rather more likely to leap through them if they hear a door chime than those who have already been inside for a few minutes.
Are there any plans for the train to be able to make the platform PA play announcements?
It sounds like the anti drag system could become the new way for chavs to stop a train for "fun". Will it be turned off outside of stations or subjected to testing to make it harder to activate maliciously?
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Post by 100andthirty on Jul 14, 2007 18:38:59 GMT
I travel routinely on class 350's and they have auto close. Perhaps its customers are more laid back than LU's but it doesn't cause a problem - and is set so that it only normally operates at terminus station or other places where there's a very long dwell.
I don't think it'll be a problem, and it will sound a chime
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Post by dave1 on Jul 14, 2007 19:53:45 GMT
Will the announcements that the doors are auto closing be made in such a way that anyone outside the train will be aware of what is happening? It strikes me that people outside the doors are rather more likely to leap through them if they hear a door chime than those who have already been inside for a few minutes. Are there any plans for the train to be able to make the platform PA play announcements? It sounds like the anti drag system could become the new way for chavs to stop a train for "fun". Will it be turned off outside of stations or subjected to testing to make it harder to activate maliciously? Yes I was thinking the same thing. You will always get the odd few chasing closing doors. This technology is very interesting and I wonder how T/Ops would cope with it.
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prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
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Post by prjb on Jul 14, 2007 22:49:43 GMT
Will the announcements that the doors are auto closing be made in such a way that anyone outside the train will be aware of what is happening? It strikes me that people outside the doors are rather more likely to leap through them if they hear a door chime than those who have already been inside for a few minutes. The chimes and CIS annoucements will be audible outside the train in the same way they are today. Are there any plans for the train to be able to make the platform PA play announcements? There were plans originally in the CIS strategy but I think they have died a death to be honest. It sounds like the anti drag system could become the new way for chavs to stop a train for "fun". Will it be turned off outside of stations or subjected to testing to make it harder to activate maliciously? No, not really. The sensitive edge is in the door rubber and is designed to detect items such as a coat or scarf when the person tries to pull the item out. These items will be present when the doors close but will be to small/thin to be detected by the obstacle detection.
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prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
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Post by prjb on Jul 14, 2007 22:50:53 GMT
I travel routinely on class 350's and they have auto close. Perhaps its customers are more laid back than LU's but it doesn't cause a problem - and is set so that it only normally operates at terminus station or other places where there's a very long dwell. I don't think it'll be a problem, and it will sound a chime Exactly, whilst there will be an element of customer education I think this system will just slip into the way we operate relatively quickly and easily.
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prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
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Post by prjb on Jul 14, 2007 22:55:56 GMT
Yes I was thinking the same thing. You will always get the odd few chasing closing doors. This technology is very interesting and I wonder how T/Ops would cope with it. They can chase the doors all they want but they would need to pry them apart whilst the train is moving to get any sort of reaction from the system. This doesn't happen today and I doubt will happen in the future either. Drivers won't need to cope (thats the point!),the system will operate automatically and the driver will be given a message on the TCMS. The system will switch off outside station limits because it will not be required due to the pushback lock out.
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