S stock mock-up

[gavelex]

some pictures I took of the one inside the Metronet Information Bus while it was at Redbridge regarding the refurbishment can be found at www.thetube.co.nr in the 'Other Stock' section.

[100andthirty]

This is a very old model. The latest publicity pics are on the Metronet site: www.metronetrail.com/default.asp?sID=1088068912937

However the design has moved on since these were published.

[tubeprune]

100andthirty,

You have a PM from me.

[gavelex]

hhmmmmmm, the guys told me that was the 'final design' they must have been wrong

[prjb]

Unfortunately Gavelex this is very far from the final design. Firstly, the final design has not yet been agreed as we are still in the Detailed Design Review (DDR) stage and even lagging in Interim Detailed Design Review stage (IDDR) in some areas, both of which are a little way off from Final Design Review stage (FDR). Secondly, the current emerging design looks nothing like the model you were shown in the info bus, the model you saw is the one that BTUK built for their bid to be awarded the contract (a few years ago now).

[Deleted]

Still interesting to see, though - I hadn't realised that any models had been made.

[stanmorek]

If I'm not mistaken the model is just like the one that was in Templar House reception. As for the bus someone suggested I'd spend a day on it. My thoughts were no way jose...

[prjb]

adw said:

Still interesting to see, though - I hadn't realised that any models had been made.

Yes, it plugs in and lights up too. There are some early pre-bid 09ts models floating around too. BTUK have quite a few models in their Mainline and Metro's department of varying sizes (I'm not familiar with model trains and their guage!).

[prjb]

stanmorek said:

If I'm not mistaken the model is just like the one that was in Templar House reception.

Yes, if it isn't that exact model then it is an identical replica.

[Deleted]

I want that model

[Deleted]

I fail to see why. The R142A NYC Subway (see sig and avatar) cars look nicer IMHO.

[Deleted]

axewielder said:

I fail to see why. The R142A NYC Subway (see sig and avatar) cars look nicer IMHO.

Really? They look very old fashioned to me, and I don't like the look of those hard plastic seats.

[Deleted]

My dad drove that bus up to have those new vinyls applied! [/OT]

[100andthirty]

When is the real mock-up due?

[prjb]

Final CAT is due in the first quarter of 2008, I don't have an exact date to hand but can ask our Comm's person on Monday. We are also trying to get a computer simulation of the cab (similar to the saloon one that LU/MRSSL currently have) for internal staff usage but this is a little way off as cab design is trailing the rest of the train.

[Deleted]

adw said:

axewielder said:

I fail to see why. The R142A NYC Subway (see sig and avatar) cars look nicer IMHO.

Really? They look very old fashioned to me, and I don't like the look of those hard plastic seats.

That doesn't stop me liking them

[Deleted]

axewielder said:

I fail to see why. The R142A NYC Subway (see sig and avatar) cars look nicer IMHO.

I'm not a fan of the plastic bench seats, as every time the train brakes everyone slides down the seat! It would be better if the seats were moulded into individual seats as on Hong Kong's MTR.

The NYC Subway's R142s, R143s and R160s look like they are designed for much hardier use than LU's trains. I personally much prefer the S-stocks interior design.

[Deleted]

MTR's seats are a bit narrow. I favour Singapore MRT's newer C751B trains with their wider seats. Still, they're plastic but not too bad.

[Deleted]

NYC's MTA may have chosen the bench seating as opposed to moulded seats due to the varying width of Americans!

[prjb]

BTUK consider a target population of 5th percentile female through to 95th percentile male. They also take into account the secular growth of the population up to 2049.

[Colin]

prjb said:

BTUK consider a target population of 5th percentile female through to 95th percentile male. They also take into account the secular growth of the population up to 2049.

Any chance of translating that into English? ;D ;D ;D

[Ben]

Very skinny women and very large gents are not considered nominal, however theyre (BTUK)also either future proofing against fatter people, or more people, or both.

[Deleted]

colin said:

prjb said:

BTUK consider a target population of 5th percentile female through to 95th percentile male. They also take into account the secular growth of the population up to 2049.

Any chance of translating that into English? ;D ;D ;D

I think he means the target population only excludes the smallest 5% of women and the largest 5% of men. But what is SECULAR growth?

[Chris M]

The definitions of Secular in Wiktionary are:

1. not specifically religious
2. not bound by the vows of a monastic order
secular clergy in Catholicism
3. temporal; something that is worldly or otherwise not based on something timeless
4. happening from age to age, as the secular games of ancient Rome
5. short-term (term used in finance)

I am not aware that religion has any impact on train seating design, so I think we can discount definitions 1 and 2 as not relevant.
We are not talking about finance or the short-term here, so definition 5 can also be discounted.
I think it could be sense 3 or 4 (they seem rather similar), referring to the pattern in our time of people getting larger, i.e. They also take into account the trend for people to be getting larger, factoring this increase in until 2049. After about 2049, the proportion of the population who do not fit into the seats will gradually increase to larger than 5%.

[prjb]

Ok, sorry.... I slipped unwittingly into Human Factors (HF) speak!

Obviously the train cannot be designed to fit absolutely everyone, so BTUK's HF people pick a target population which is between 5th %ile female and 95%ile male. Anyone outside this audience may be considered but are not the target group used to design the train. Things such as grab rail heights or pinch points in the cab are the type of things this range of people would be used to measure against.
Chris M is correct, I basically meant that when designing the train the HF engineers will consider (where possible) the general growth trends of the population at large. In this case they are considering how the users will change upuntil 2049, and it doesn't take a genuis to work out that we are all getting bigger. I have taken into account the secular growth of my belly for example and have decided not to have another chocolate biscuit. Oh alright then, just one! ;D

[prjb]

100andthirty said:

When is the real mock-up due?

LU should receive it in December this year and it is currently scheduled to go public in January 2008.

[Deleted]

stephenk said:

NYC's MTA may have chosen the bench seating as opposed to moulded seats due to the varying width of Americans!

Meaning some Americans are getting too wide, while others try to be as bony as possible?

[Deleted]

but on an s stock you won't be sitting on seats you will be sitting on rock

[Deleted]

Which means I'll have to start bringing cushions

[Deleted]

is there any cab pics or anything because im thinking of making a s stock train for bve