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Post by astock5000 on Dec 3, 2008 20:30:33 GMT
I have read that Tower Gateway might re-open a couple of months early, but how much work has been done by now? Has any work happened at Royal Mint Street Junction (the junction where the Bank line turns off), as they said the track layout will be changed?
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Post by 21146 on Dec 3, 2008 20:35:36 GMT
Today there was still bits of track missing in the area, of course this might not be needed depending where the 'main' goes down to single on the approach to Tower Gateway,
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Post by cetacean on Dec 3, 2008 21:59:52 GMT
When I passed it at the weekend (on a c2c train in the dark), it looked like they were only about halfway through putting up the canopy walls, and the trackbed on the branch consisted mainly of unconcreted rebar. So I can't see it opening imminently.
It's being retained as an alternative terminus for the full service (eg January 2010 when Bank is closed for three-car works), and I can't imagine it being able to handle a decent throughput without being double track. That said, I've not seen any diagrams of the new layout.
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Post by 21146 on Dec 4, 2008 0:02:16 GMT
But surely after Royal Mint Junction it only needs to be single coz' that will lead to the new Tower Gateway station with one road and platforms either side?
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Post by Chris M on Dec 4, 2008 0:03:07 GMT
I'm sure I've seen a diagram somewhere, but I can't find it. All I've been able to find is this quote from an old thread here: The new layout will have a passing loop between Mint St Junction and Tower Gateway. It is designed to be able to reverse up to 15tph. |
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 4, 2008 17:09:18 GMT
I'm sure I've seen a diagram somewhere, but I can't find it. All I've been able to find is this quote from an old thread here: The new layout will have a passing loop between Mint St Junction and Tower Gateway. It is designed to be able to reverse up to 15tph. A passing loop? I thought that the line would be double track all the way to just before the platform at Tower Gateway, with the track layout changing at Royal Mint Street Junction. |
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Post by Chris M on Dec 4, 2008 18:02:02 GMT
The diagram below is my understanding of the new layout - it might be completely wrong! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2008 18:28:31 GMT
The general idea of the single platform is one is for people to get off and other for people to crowd before boarding. Ive heard turnaround going to be tight even by DLR standards, just enough to let half train on before they start boarding from the other side. Although when Bank closes for awhile Tower Gateway's design is going to be put to the test!
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 4, 2008 19:03:45 GMT
The diagram below is my understanding of the new layout - it might be completely wrong!If that is what is happening, there should still be an extra crossover, just to the West of Shadwell, so trains can reverse there, as well as the one at Royal Mint Street Junction that trains to Tower Gateway will use. (The crossover to the East of Shadwell has been removed to make room for the extended platform). Although when Bank closes for awhile Tower Gateway's design is going to be put to the test! Why will Bank be closed? The platforms are already long enough for 3 car trains. |
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Post by Chris M on Dec 4, 2008 20:22:51 GMT
If that is what is happening, there should still be an extra crossover, just to the West of Shadwell, so trains can reverse there, as well as the one at Royal Mint Street Junction that trains to Tower Gateway will use. (The crossover to the East of Shedwell has been removed to make room for the extended platform). Why should there be another crossover? If the signalling supports it (and generally the DLR signalling is very flexible) then trains can reverse east to west (i.e. a shuttle service between Shadwell and Bank) using the section of track highlighted red below reversing off the eastbound platform. They can also reverse west to east (i.e. not serving Tower Gateway or Bank) by using the green crossover, arriving in the westbound platform moving forwards over the crossover as if heading towards Tower Gateway, and then reversing into the eastbound platform. This may not even require a detrainment.  |
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 4, 2008 20:36:38 GMT
There is already a crossover to the west of Shadwell for reversing trains, so they don't have to go as far as Royal Mint Street Junction. I don't think it will be removed.
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Post by jimini on Dec 5, 2008 8:25:10 GMT
There is already a crossover to the west of Shadwell for reversing trains, so they don't have to go as far as Royal Mint Street Junction. I don't think it will be removed. Yep, but it's the other way round than on Chris' diagram (trains shunt west out of Shadwell, then run back via. the X-over to the eastbound platform). They need to move / upgrade the signalling in the area (AFAIUI). It's closed throughout December 2009, I believe? |
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 15, 2008 16:53:19 GMT
When I passed it at the weekend (on a c2c train in the dark), it looked like they were only about halfway through putting up the canopy walls, and the trackbed on the branch consisted mainly of unconcreted rebar. So I can't see it opening imminently. |
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Post by uzairjubilee on Dec 15, 2008 17:52:20 GMT
What is the layout at the moment.
I would have a look at The London Tube, but the website isn't working
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Post by cetacean on Dec 15, 2008 18:28:15 GMT
Single-lead junction from the Bank branch, followed quickly by a fork into two lines, each of which served each platform. There were no crossovers west of the fork.
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Post by astock5000 on Jan 25, 2009 19:18:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2009 12:54:35 GMT
According to the Wharf it will open in early March. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2009 16:44:54 GMT
I wonder if ticket gates will be installed at Tower Gateway as at Woolwich Arsenal? It would seem a logical move given that there seem to be few ticket checks on trains nowadays.
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Post by cetacean on Feb 4, 2009 19:42:29 GMT
The barriers at Woolwich Arsenal are there to keep you off the Southeastern trains - the intention is not to protect the DLR.
I don't think anything is changing at Tower Gateway outside the platform area.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2009 20:10:53 GMT
Its opening March, that comes from the DLR themselves.
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Post by astock5000 on Feb 5, 2009 19:16:04 GMT
The barriers at Woolwich Arsenal are there to keep you off the Southeastern trains - the intention is not to protect the DLR. So then why aren't they between the DLR and Southeastern? As they are at the entrance to the station, you can get from the DLR to Southeastern without going through a ticket barrier. |
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Post by cetacean on Feb 5, 2009 20:12:15 GMT
Because gating interchanges is generally frowned upon (and there are issues with capacity and gateline positioning and so on). That makes gating the whole station complex the only option.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2009 14:40:48 GMT
There are barriers between the DLR and the street, nothing to do with South Eastern. The barriers at Woolwich Arsenal are there to keep you off the Southeastern trains - the intention is not to protect the DLR. I don't think anything is changing at Tower Gateway outside the platform area. |
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Post by cetacean on Feb 6, 2009 15:43:57 GMT
But if there weren't barriers between the DLR and the street you'd be able to use the interchange route to get to the Southeastern platforms without passing through barriers. Therefore the DLR were forced to put barriers either on the interchange route or on the entrances, and they chose the latter.
Given that most other DLR stations would be near impossible to barrier (including recently designed ones), I don't think there's any reason to think they've suddenly decided ticket barriers are a good idea.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2009 16:21:40 GMT
Sorry I don't understand this. There are already barriers at the South Eastern station and there have been for some considerable time.
I appreciate that point you make about barriers being impossible at most DLR stations but Woolwich Arsenal is obviously an exception and I don't think they would be out of the question at Tower Gateway.
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Post by cetacean on Feb 6, 2009 17:28:25 GMT
That's the whole bloody point. The DLR can't come in and attach an ungated station with ungated interchange on the side of an already gated station, so they were forced to put in gates somewhere in their part of the station. The gates would not exist if it weren't for the requirement the Southeastern platforms be gated. I don't know why this so hard for you to grok.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2009 17:49:39 GMT
The diagram below is my understanding of the new layout - it might be completely wrong!From my observations, this is how I believe Tower Gateway station will look: There would be no passing loop as such as Royal Mint Street junction will be changed so that instead of the TG spur being connected to the DLR network by a single track as above, they'll be a flat juction with both tracks connecting to the DLR network. The southern line (the bottom one in the diagram) is the one that serves the station. There is a crossover about 100-150m outside the station. From this crossover the northern track continues to the edge of the northern platform forming a siding. On the subject of gating the station, I doubt it as it would be impossible to gate the Mansell St staircase. |
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Post by astock5000 on Feb 6, 2009 18:09:06 GMT
There would be no passing loop as such as Royal Mint Street junction will be changed so that instead of the TG spur being connected to the DLR network by a single track as above, they'll be a flat juction with both tracks connecting to the DLR network. The southern line (the bottom one in the diagram) is the one that serves the station. There is a crossover about 100-150m outside the station. From this crossover the northern track continues to the edge of the northern platform forming a siding. Is this what you mean? |
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Post by 21146 on Feb 6, 2009 23:48:14 GMT
That's the whole bloody point. The DLR can't come in and attach an ungated station with ungated interchange on the side of an already gated station, so they were forced to put in gates somewhere in their part of the station. The gates would not exist if it weren't for the requirement the Southeastern platforms be gated. I don't know why this so hard for you to grok. Presumably Limehouse DLR will be gated too otherwise you'll soon be able to exit from c2c via their Up Road platform and the c2c/DLR cross-platform link, then out via the EB DLR platform and stairs? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2009 10:55:06 GMT
I'll try just one more time. The gated entrance/exit leads from the DLR into the street so I cannot see what it has got to do with South Eastern  That's the whole bloody point. The DLR can't come in and attach an ungated station with ungated interchange on the side of an already gated station, so they were forced to put in gates somewhere in their part of the station. The gates would not exist if it weren't for the requirement the Southeastern platforms be gated. I don't know why this so hard for you to grok. |
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