Tower Gateway - how much work done so far?

[cetacean]

Limehouse will get a second gateline on the c2c end of the interchange bridge. It'd be quite tricky to gate the DLR station, as I think the stairs/lifts deposit you directly onto the street.

I'll try just one more time. The gated entrance/exit leads from the DLR into the street so I cannot see what it has got to do with South Eastern

The two DLR entrances are also equally between Southeastern and the street, because there's easy access between the DLR station and the Southeastern platforms. If the DLR entrances weren't gated, you'd be able to very easily bypass the Southeastern gateline by going through the DLR station. So that's why it had to have gates.

[100andthirty]

I presume southeastern shoud read C2C??

OOPs I thought this related to Tower Gateway, and forgot we somethimes of off-message!

[Deleted]

I see what you mean about being able to use the DLR to bypass the SET gates but as it stands now anybody without a ticket can transfer between DLR and SET and vice versa. I'd have thought gates at the interchange point to protect SET and leaving the DLR open access as per the rest of the system would have been better? As an aside to all of this the 'step free access gate' on SET's London bound platform is usually left open and unattended anyway and a lot of people use it, whether they want step free access or a free ride I couldnt say !

Getting back to Tower Gateway I just though it might be gated being a Central London station and given that on train ticket checks are very rare indeed nowadays.

The two DLR entrances are also equally between Southeastern and the street, because there's easy access between the DLR station and the Southeastern platforms. If the DLR entrances weren't gated, you'd be able to very easily bypass the Southeastern gateline by going through the DLR station. So that's why it had to have gates.[/quote]

[astock5000]

Feb 9, 2009 11:01:54 GMT @george1manning said:

I see what you mean about being able to use the DLR to bypass the SET gates but as it stands now anybody without a ticket can transfer between DLR and SET and vice versa. I'd have thought gates at the interchange point to protect SET and leaving the DLR open access as per the rest of the system would have been better?

I agree that the barriers should be between Southeastern and the DLR. I don't see why they don't like putting ticket barriers between two lines, as going through a barrier isn't that much of a problem.

Feb 9, 2009 11:01:54 GMT @george1manning said:

Getting back to Tower Gateway I just though it might be gated being a Central London station and given that on train ticket checks are very rare indeed nowadays

There is not much point in putting ticket barriers at Tower Gateway. Tower Gateway doesn't have an interchange to another line, and no other DLR stations (that don't connect with anything) have ticket barriers.

[Deleted]

I just though ticket gates at Tower Gateway would reduce fare evasion which must be somewhat rife on the DLR.

[cetacean]

Unless they've been fiddling the numbers, TfL's statistics show the DLR has the lowest rate of fare evasion of any service. Which explains their rampant disinterest in ticket gates.

[Deleted]

Forgive me for asking but how can anybody possibly know how many people are fare dodging when there are no ticket checks? I seem to recall similar claims being made about open boarding bendy buses.

Feb 10, 2009 14:23:51 GMT @cetacean said:

Unless they've been fiddling the numbers, TfL's statistics show the DLR has the lowest rate of fare evasion of any service. Which explains their rampant disinterest in ticket gates.

[cetacean]

The figures are estimates based on spot checks.

[Deleted]

Forgive my cynicism but I use the DLR regularly and have never seen any spot checks so I would take these figures with a pinch of salt.

[cetacean]

The mathematics of statistical sampling are such that you only have to check a tiny fraction of trains to get a solid grasp of overall levels of fare evasion. Even without understanding the maths, it should be obvious if you check one train and find pretty much everyone has tickets, the chances of encountering something completely different on another train are fairly slim. So you not having personally encountered any kind of check doesn't mean they aren't doing them, or that they aren't doing enough to get accurate figures.

(NB I have no idea what methodology or sample size TfL use)

[Chris M]

I've only ever been an infrequent user of the DLR but I've been checked on several occasions, including between Bow Church and Devons Road on my most recent journey.
More recently than that however I was checked on the H&C somewhere between Paddington and Wood Lane, although I can't remember exactly where.

[Deleted]

Feb 10, 2009 17:50:51 GMT @george1manning said:

Forgive my cynicism but I use the DLR regularly and have never seen any spot checks so I would take these figures with a pinch of salt.

I used DLR regularly (2-3 times a day) for 2.5 years until July 2008, and had at least 2-3 checks every week during that period.

[Deleted]

Two or three checks a week?? I've used the DLR regularly since it opened and whilst the train captains (or whatever they are called) used to do regular ticket checks these seem to have become fewer and fewer in recent years and in any case those without tickets are just asked to get off at the next stop and buy one to avoid a penalty fare.

[astock5000]

Feb 11, 2009 0:55:03 GMT Chris M said:

I've only ever been an infrequent user of the DLR but I've been checked on several occasions, including between Bow Church and Devons Road on my most recent journey.
More recently than that however I was checked on the H&C somewhere between Paddington and Wood Lane, although I can't remember exactly where.

I've had my ticket checked on the DLR and on Tramlink, but not on LU.

Feb 11, 2009 12:09:50 GMT @george1manning said:

Two or three checks a week?? I've used the DLR regularly since it opened and whilst the train captains (or whatever they are called) used to do regular ticket checks these seem to have become fewer and fewer in recent years and in any case those without tickets are just asked to get off at the next stop and buy one to avoid a penalty fare.

Train Captains are now called Passenger Service Agents (PSAs). I disagree about ticket checks happening less often now - I don't use the DLR that often and I was checked several times last year.

[Chris M]

Feb 11, 2009 21:50:26 GMT astock5000 said:

I've had my ticket checked on the DLR and on Tramlink, but not on LU.

I've had my ticket checked on almost(?) every Tramlink journey, a fair proprotion of journeys on the DLR and Overground and only a couple of times that I can remember on an LU train. The H&C recently and at the the southern end of the Northern Line on my first journey down that way a few years back (I was checked somewhere between Balham and South Wimbledon). I have a feeling I may have been checked one or two other times as well.

I've only ever been checked once on a bus, and that was on a Debden-bound number 20 on the approach to Loughton.

[Deleted]

Well I can only speak from my own experience as a regular user of public transport, I've had the occasional check on Tramlink (about once in every 20-30 journies), none on LU although there are of course ticket gates at most stations and as I've mentioned very few on DLR.

[Deleted]

There are frequently ticket checks on DLR when I travel.

Most common problem found? Failed to touch in. Often caused by people not knowing where the readers are at ungated stations.

Occasionally people get penalty notices - seen some pay up on the spot.

There was one instance I remember of two boarding at Bank and being caught without Zone 1. The inspector recognised them as having done it before.

There are probably peak times for fare evasion, especially on the Woolwich service - ticket checking targeted at that time might make the estimate an over-estimate.

[pib]

All DLR stations are fitted with people counters, I believe data from these is used for revenue calculations.

[Deleted]

Anyway to sort of get back on topic, here's a progress report on the 3 car project from the TfL Board papers

DLR 3 Car Project
Productivity during possessions was generally good with the majority of works completed as planned in the period.
Tower Gateway works are due to complete in February 2009, enabling the station re-open in early March. Works on the
Lewisham extension (Cutty Sark to Lewisham) are due to complete at the end of January 2009. Works to the Delta
Junction continue and confidence remains that future programme milestones can be met enabling completion of the
grade-separated junction by 20 April. Good progress has been made on the Canning Town Junction with the fly-over
now visibly in place. The works continue towards a planned blockade on 23 May.

[Deleted]

Quick note - posting on u.t.l states Tower Gateway to reopen this Sunday, 15 February

[Deleted]

I'll be amazed as there isn't a blockade this weekend to reconstruct Royal Mint St junction and run test trains. TfL board notes which I've quoted above say early March which ties in with blockades of the west route planned for the last two weekends of this month.

[cetacean]

Royal Mint Street seemed fairly thoroughly reconstructed when I passed it last weekend. The new connection bypassing the single lead junction was certainly in place. Though I'm not sure about the date either - it's from the TfL board papers, and they sometimes show very obvious signs of having been prepared a few weeks in advance.

In other news, the board papers confirm funding for the Beckton branch three car project has been found.

[Deleted]

Clearly you and I don't travel on the same trains! I rode on four different trains yesterday and not one ticket check not even on a fairly quiet journey where the PSA sat in the front n/s seat (not driving manually) for the entire journey.

There is no mention on the TfL site about Tower Gateway reopening tomorrow, still just 'Spring 2009'.

Feb 12, 2009 16:16:08 GMT @pmrnorthern said:

There are frequently ticket checks on DLR when I travel.

Most common problem found? Failed to touch in. Often caused by people not knowing where the readers are at ungated stations.

Occasionally people get penalty notices - seen some pay up on the spot.

There was one instance I remember of two boarding at Bank and being caught without Zone 1. The inspector recognised them as having done it before.

There are probably peak times for fare evasion, especially on the Woolwich service - ticket checking targeted at that time might make the estimate an over-estimate.

[Deleted]

So, did it open today?

[Chris M]

Not according to the realtime map on the TfL site, which still has it opening in "Spring 2009". Looking out my window it certainly doesn't look like spring today!

[Deleted]

Ive been speaking to my contacts inside the DLR and they insist that it will open in March!

[Deleted]

It's official! Posters have appeared on the DLR that say that Tower Gateway will reopen in early March and that Beckton to Tower Gateway through services will resume.

[astock5000]

Feb 16, 2009 20:23:09 GMT @docklands said:

Posters have appeared on the DLR that say that Tower Gateway will reopen in early March

i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm67/astock5000/DLR/IMG_0758.jpg

Feb 12, 2009 22:12:57 GMT @cetacean said:

Royal Mint Street seemed fairly thoroughly reconstructed when I passed it last weekend. The new connection bypassing the single lead junction was certainly in place.

The junction with the Bank branch hasn't been rebuilt yet, and a lot of work is still being done on the track, but I have no idea how finished the station is.

[Deleted]

The sticker you can see on top of the service information says that a new timetable will be in operation from 2nd March in preparation for the reopening of Tower Gateway.

[astock5000]

www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravelnews/realtime/dlr/default.html
The TfL website is now saying that Tower Gateway will re-open in early March. Before, it just said 'Spring 2009'.
The DLR is suspended between Bank and West India Quay/Poplar this weekend and next weekend. This is probably so that they can change the track layout at Royal Mint Street junction.