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Post by edwin on Sept 28, 2009 2:05:02 GMT
The premise is that the system won't be allowed to fall into this level of disrepair again and therefore these types of closures will become unnecessary.
I'm not holding my breath.
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Post by plasmid on Sept 28, 2009 8:37:32 GMT
You can't really set such a tight deadline with a new system.
There using computers here...teething issues and delays are to be expected with such projects. I'm not at all surprised by the need for extra weekend closures.
Everyone knows that computers are about as unreliable as a living breathing man.
The only time computers will become flawless is when we cure every human disease in the book.
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Post by railtechnician on Sept 28, 2009 14:05:18 GMT
You can't really set such a tight deadline with a new system. There using computers here...teething issues and delays are to be expected with such projects. I'm not at all surprised by the need for extra weekend closures. Everyone knows that computers are about as unreliable as a living breathing man. The only time computers will become flawless is when we cure every human disease in the book. The biggest problem with computers is that they do exactly what they are programmed to do! They are not unreliable at all but they are the product of one or more programmer's limited imagination!!! |
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Post by plasmid on Sept 28, 2009 14:58:34 GMT
Yeah well...there are the computers you use on trains (which are designed to be reliable) and then there are the high end desktop computers we use at home (which are designed for performance over reliability).
One thing I'd love to see is a screenshot of the computer screen on a Jubilee Line train with the message "Microsoft has encountered a problem and needs to close."
Anyways back on topic the current acceleration of the Jubilee line stock is limited. How much faster will it become after the ATO is completed? I'm guessing that they will be a tad faster than the 1992 stock.
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Post by d7666 on Sept 30, 2009 15:51:27 GMT
One thing I'd love to see is a screenshot of the computer screen on a Jubilee Line train with the message "Microsoft has encountered a problem and needs to close." Difficult. You are making an assumption that all computers run M$. AFAIK 96 stock does not have any M$ software on board (unless a rolling stock technican has a diagnostic laptop connected, but then you'd be in depot anyway). I'd need to check on that to be 100% - but right now I'm 99% certain theres no M$ involved. Nor does the present day Jubilee line signals control system at Neasden (it is OS2 - not Windows). I know that for sure - night shift  routine task twice per week to reboot  all 56 processors - and that included the six remote LNP and the SMD tower  processors.  at least I don't get involved with that any more, on a different line now. -- Nick |
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Post by londonstuff on Sept 30, 2009 17:35:43 GMT
At the mock up of the S Stock, I'm sure it was said that they'd be using a Windows network on the train.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 30, 2009 19:02:04 GMT
Wasn't the Central lines control room using windows 3.1 or something?
Some newer cash machines use windows 2000; its always amusing to see the screen when theyve crashed.
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Post by d7666 on Sept 30, 2009 21:29:32 GMT
Wasn't the Central lines control room using windows 3.1 or something? Funny you mention CLCC ... No, its a mix of RMX (in SER), Unix and Solaris (in SER and control room). |
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Post by d7666 on Sept 30, 2009 21:36:33 GMT
At the mock up of the S Stock, I'm sure it was said that they'd be using a Windows network on the train. I have no knowledge on this point ... but I'd suggest it could be true ... S stock is Bombardier ''Movia'' which is closely linked to main line ''Electrostar''. 357/375/377 of the first and main big batches are Windows 95. ((I'm not sure what systems are actually on this though.)) I say main big batches because that refers to what are now the C2C / SET / SN fleets used to replace Mk.1 etc stock, ordered 2000-2002. I can't say what is in later classes such as 376s, the current 377s such as 377/5, or 378s. -- Nick |
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Post by d7666 on Oct 1, 2009 15:09:08 GMT
Wasn't the Central lines control room using windows 3.1 or something? Funny you mention CLCC ... No, its a mix of RMX (in SER), Unix and Solaris (in SER and control room). I'll correct and amplify that message, I wrote it too quickly. Control Room consoles are Solaris 2.6. Control room Overviews are driven by processors in SER that are RMX III (only the screen output is in the Control room itself). The central timetable server (in SER) is Unix. All other processors in SER, and all 16 LSC, are RMX III. Again, first hand knowledge through a recent test build of every processor type. Possibly too much drift from Jubilee to Central, but the CLCC question followed from NSCC comments. -- Nick |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Oct 2, 2009 0:02:37 GMT
Ahh, thanks for that |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2009 20:40:23 GMT
And getting back to closures- this weekend was the pits.Not only planned closures(only five lines working in full) but signal failures on both the Picc and Central.
So I want to go on Met Line Wembley area/Piccadilly to Arsenal for the match ,kick off 13.30 today.
Ok I know that the Met Line is out,so I'll go all the way on the Picc. from Sudbury Town.Boring journey 25 stops but hey we get a seat and no changes( I am taking my 86 yr old !!! neighbour),and I can park the car for free in the station car park.
So before setting off I check the Tfl website and what do I see? Severe delays on Picc. line due to signal failure at Acton Town. Rapid re-think.Ah bingo- we'll go Bakerloo from North Wembley to Baker St then Circle to Kings X and so on.-oh no you can't -nothing north of Stonebridge.
Another re-think -drive to Greenford get on Central Line and change to Picc. at Holborn.No car park in operation at Greenford but we did arrive in good time.
Return journey-entering Arsenal tube we hear ''Severe delays on the Central due to signal failure at Holborn.'' Oh no!Not much we could do as the car was at Greenford.So we go ahead.
Still ''severe delays'' announcements at Holborn(about 16.30).Get down on the Westbound platform and there were three trains in quick succession including two to West Ruislip on the branch we wanted???
On arrival at Greenford ''severe delays'' still up on the whiteboard.
Left hand right hand? What was going on.?Total shambles, yet again, for anybody travelling on Saturday or Sunday.More to come I fear.
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Post by superteacher on Oct 4, 2009 21:25:56 GMT
Even with severe delays, you can get trains in quick succession. You might then get a 10 minute gap, or even more!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2009 22:41:12 GMT
Thanks for that info.But still the overall ''service'' this w/end was pretty dire.I've lived in this city all my life so know my way around the systems,but pity the poor out -of -towners or tourists.It's like an assault course or a labyrinth trying to travel over the weekends these days.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Oct 7, 2009 1:39:45 GMT
Full line closure now on Saturday 10th,still Stratford-West Hampstead shuttle Sunday 11th.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2009 22:26:50 GMT
Oh great.Another lousy weekend.Only four lines with a full service
Bakerloo,Circle,Northern and Picc. on Sat and Sun
And I see again, severe delays tonight on the Jubilee -more signal failures.Unbelievable.The whole system appears to be on a knife edge.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2009 22:10:23 GMT
The whole system appears to be on a knife edge. Do you suppose the system would be better if there were another 20 years without upgrading signalling, replacing track, sleepers, repairing escalators and the like? Having grown up in South London, away from regular Tube usage, my strongest memories of arriving at Victoria or London Bridge Underground Stations of a weekend were dirt, grime, decay and crowding. Now, the system is reactively clean, slowly being repaired, being expanded and upgraded. Yes, this takes time, and yes it's a hassle; believe me, having also lived in East London I wrote emails complaining when last year Tfl closed sections or all of the Jub, District and DLR over the same weekend. But I understand that progress takes time. Rome was not built in a day and neither will The Underground system be up to scratch overnight! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2009 17:38:31 GMT
Of course I am fully aware of the need to upgrade and these works are a neccessary nuisance.
What I am really ranting about is this country's obsession and political dogma started in the Thatcher years-privatise everything in sight,''private good public bad'',transport to maximise profits rather than subsidise as a public service and an advantage for London for both residents, business and visitors.
We have seen the advantages of high government/city funding in France,Germany,Holland/Spain and elsewhere.
Not only metro systems but inter city /TGV rail travel.They invested years ago and we see the benefits now.Reasonable fares and terrific trains and stations.
Of course this was seen as ''stuff those foreigners do''.'pay our taxes for transport-oh no chaps not us Brits''
Now we are reaping the rewards and trying to catch up. and still paying for it.More now than if we had started say in 1976 like SNCF
It's embarrasing for this country.And don''t even get me going on fare prices.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2009 18:59:53 GMT
Of course I am fully aware of the need to upgrade and these works are a neccessary nuisance. What I am really ranting about is this country's obsession and political dogma started in the Thatcher years-privatise everything in sight,''private good public bad'',transport to maximise profits rather than subsidise as a public service and an advantage for London for both residents, business and visitors. We have seen the advantages of high government/city funding in France,Germany,Holland/Spain and elsewhere. Not only metro systems but inter city /TGV rail travel.They invested years ago and we see the benefits now.Reasonable fares and terrific trains and stations. Of course this was seen as ''stuff those foreigners do''.'pay our taxes for transport-oh no chaps not us Brits'' Now we are reaping the rewards and trying to catch up. and still paying for it.More now than if we had started say in 1976 like SNCF It's embarrasing for this country.And don''t even get me going on fare prices. Here here. As for fares, I will start they are stupidly high! |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 11, 2009 19:55:28 GMT
Here here. As for fares, I will start they are stupidly high! But that would be for another thread. ;D |
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Post by version3point1 on Oct 11, 2009 22:56:44 GMT
I'm just frustrated with the farce that are the weekend engineering works posters, and the replacement bus service arrangements (for North Greenwich – Stratford). For the past couple of weeks, we have been told at the beginning of the week that there will be NO replacement buses and thus relay this information to the passengers all week, only to be told on the Friday or Saturday morning that an arrangement for replacement bus services have finally been made. Then we are sent amendment posters for printing to the plotters on the main station of the group, only to find that the posters can't actually be sent to us until the Friday night. But like I said, the posters are a farce. This week, we got two different posters for the weekend: One network-wide poster detailing all works on the system for 10/11 October, and another poster for Central London. Both had conflicting information regarding the Jubilee Line closures. - We're told that we're not allowed to manually amend the posters or cross out the wrong information because we would get 'marked down for defacing the posters'. - We're told that we're not allowed to take the Central London poster down (which has the contradictory information), because we would get 'marked down for failure to display a circuit poster'. They wonder why morale is so low on stations these days – some of us actually give a t*ss about the passengers, and there are actually some passengers out there who do bother to look at the posters and check. So how do you think we look when they come up to us and say, "Oh – I see the Jubilee Line is running this weekend as it says on the poster," and you have to say, "You were looking at the wrong one."  One of our supervisors actually bothered to call up whoever/whatever penpusher was responsible for the communications or whatever regarding the posters. 55 Broadway's official stance on it: "Well – you've got to have the posters up. Just don't put them up next to each other."WTF?! |
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Post by Chris M on Oct 12, 2009 0:25:21 GMT
Even the TfL journey planner didn't know about the replacement bus service last Sunday (4th October), or indeed the previously advertised replacement boat service, as it insisted the only way from Stratford to North Greenwich was to use the 108 that takes the scenic route around every roundabout and "high street" it can find at least once.
On my return I decided to use the replacement boat service to East India as a better way of getting to Bow Church than the bus service to Canning Town. Despite the posters at Stratford still talking about the boat service I couldn't find any directions to it at North Greenwich (indeed to follow the only permanent directions to the pier would require vaulting a large hoarding and a substantial wire fence) - perhaps the entire budget had been used at the East India end where there were bored-looking marshals, signs and temporary paths.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2009 19:34:17 GMT
We have seen the advantages of high government/city funding in France,Germany,Holland/Spain and elsewhere. Not only metro systems but inter city /TGV rail travel.They invested years ago and we see the benefits now.Reasonable fares and terrific trains and stations. Of course this was seen as ''stuff those foreigners do''.'pay our taxes for transport-oh no chaps not us Brits'' Now we are reaping the rewards and trying to catch up. and still paying for it.More now than if we had started say in 1976 like SNCF It's embarrasing for this country.And don''t even get me going on fare prices. But in Germany, France, Spain etc you pay basic rate of income tax at circa 40%. I'll comment primarily on Germany as I've lived there. After income (federal) tax you then pay a city tax, regional tax (Landes), tax for each radio you own, tax for each tv you own, tax for each car you own, tax if you are religious... the list goes on and on. So no, I don't favour a 'Continential' form of subsidy as it costs more in the long run and leaves me with less in my pocket! I've paid in excess of €200 for a Koeln-Frankfurt ICE return ticket before. So where is the subsidy there? This route uses one of the only pure ICE3 - high speed lines, and is a lesser distance than London-Birmingham. A further German example is that earlier this year the entire board of the DB run Berliner S-bahn were made sacked for not implementing safety improvements/checks on brakes that were recommended following a train failure/derailment. It has resulted in the seriously reduced (at one point Der Spiegel reported this as being by 70%) and the repairs/checks have not yet been completed. I don't agree with a pure Thatcherite agenda of privatistion either. Simply put, nothing is that black and white. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2009 20:27:56 GMT
And yet we see the little red line picking up the slack for everyone else, whilst it falls apart through lack of love!
The poxy Jubilee line, is the @rsehole London Underground!
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 12, 2009 23:05:18 GMT
And yet we see the little red line picking up the slack for everyone else, whilst it falls apart through lack of love! The poxy Jubilee line, is the @rsehole London Underground! Language, Timothy! The Jubilee Line is going through the difficult regeneration that the little red line did: this time seems less rushed: a better level of maturity, you might say. ;D ;D |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Oct 21, 2009 1:09:57 GMT
Maybe a piece of good news for some of you,the closure Waterloo-Stanmore until 11:45 Sunday is now cancelled,full WTT 10 in operation.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2009 5:50:50 GMT
Just before you all rush out to celebrate getting a whole one day of weekend WTT10!
Tubelines have been granted additional closures 31st Oct/1st Nov & 14th/15th Nov which means, In addition to Waterloo-Stanmore closed North Greenwich-Stratford will also be shut!
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Post by happybunny on Oct 21, 2009 9:56:54 GMT
So the trains will run Waterloo - NOG ? How will they get trains there from the depot? Will they leave some out-stabled on the Fri night for use on Sat AM
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Post by Chris M on Oct 21, 2009 10:10:30 GMT
From page 12 of this thread: During operation of the North Greenwich to Waterloo shuttles, where will the train(s) be stabled? They will be "locked in" at various locations between NOG & WAT. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2009 21:34:42 GMT
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routine task twice per week to reboot 
all 56 processors - and that included the six remote LNP and the SMD tower 
at least I don't get involved with that any more, on a different line now.
