metman
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Post by metman on Oct 28, 2007 23:35:24 GMT
A direct service from Liverpool Street to Barking would still be run by the H&C right?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2007 16:50:38 GMT
A direct service from Liverpool Street to Barking would still be run by the H&C right? My understanding of the T cup is that it would replace both Circle and H&C lines. So unless the Met goes to Barking, I can't see where a direct service from Liverpool Street to Barking fits in to the plans.
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 29, 2007 18:13:23 GMT
They can't just leave out the North curve at Aldgate! I expect the T cup to be dropped. If it isn't, I expect the Hammersmith and City Line to run a parallel service between Barking and Hammersmith. This gives more trains between Hammersmith and Liverpool Street. I can't remember what the frequency of the T cup service was supposed to be but it won't cover the current Hammersmith and Circle Line service combined? They are 'supposed' to run at 4 min intervals between Edg Rd-Lv St?
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 29, 2007 18:46:36 GMT
Hang on. If there's a T-Cup service and no Mets to Barking, what provides the direct Liverpool St - Aldgate East service? The Met remains as is, the Circle goes and is replaced by the 'T Cup', and the H&C continues as it is today.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 29, 2007 18:50:36 GMT
What with the scaling down of the "Super-Depots", I wonder if there are any plans to mve Edgware Road Train Crew Depot? After all Hammersmith (opened a few years ago), will close! Where are you guys getting this from?!! Hammersmith is not closing, if anything I suspect it's head count will increase. It may move from it's current location but it is not closing. It's true that our department is looking at optimum crew depot locations for the entire SSR network but that work is currently ongoing. Hammersmith stays though, and since I worked on getting it open I know that this is a good idea.
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Post by c5 on Oct 29, 2007 18:53:57 GMT
What with the scaling down of the "Super-Depots", I wonder if there are any plans to mve Edgware Road Train Crew Depot? After all Hammersmith (opened a few years ago), will close! Where are you guys getting this from?!! Hammersmith is not closing, if anything I suspect it's head count will increase. It may move from it's current location but it is not closing. It's true that our department is looking at optimum crew depot locations for the entire SSR network but that work is currently ongoing. Hammersmith stays though, and since I worked on getting it open I know that this is a good idea. I'm sure that when it was opened we were old it was only until the new trains arrived! Oh well at least it wasn't such a huge waste of money!
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 29, 2007 19:00:06 GMT
The unofficial plan at the time was to move to a bigger operating centre when the upgrade took place but the building was built as a permanent facility rather than a temporary thing. In fairness in project terms the building work and other associated activities to get Hammersmith re-opened was negligible. If LU staff 'PM' me I will give you the actual figure and I think you'll be suprised.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2007 23:53:04 GMT
Hang on. If there's a T-Cup service and no Mets to Barking, what provides the direct Liverpool St - Aldgate East service? The Met remains as is, the Circle goes and is replaced by the 'T Cup', and the H&C continues as it is today. Has it ever been looked at for the T-cup to take a branch off the District at all? IE Wimbledon to Hammersmith via Aldgate? Leaving Edgware Road to Olympia a smaller continuous service? IE a line in its own right?
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Post by tubeprune on Oct 30, 2007 9:10:31 GMT
It's true that our department is looking at optimum crew depot locations for the entire SSR network but that work is currently ongoing. Hammersmith stays though, and since I worked on getting it open I know that this is a good idea. Crew depots are better at the ends of lines, especially where there is a depot or sidings. This means that you can leave one in the platform or stick it in the yard if there's a relief problem. It also gives time for the change of crew within the turnround time. Changing crews along the line is always problematical. Edgware Road will not work with 30tph in each direction and crew relief dwells at 60s per train. It doesn't work now with 21 tph. Look at the Picc. Every time there's a problem, they end up with queues of trains trying to get reliefs at Acton. If the T cup goes ahead, you should get rid of Edgware Road and move everyone to Hammersmith.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2007 20:21:55 GMT
As I think was mentioned in another thread recently, the problem with depots at ends of lines is that when a spare is used he is generally gone for a long time. In the context of the H&C, a spare put on a train at Hammersmith is probably going to have to do at least Hammersmith - Whitechapel - Hammersmith. With the T-Cup I suppose that would be Hammersmith-Edgware Road - round the circle to Edgware Road again - Hammersmith. So one driver booking on 10 minutes late means a spare disappears for 2 hours.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2007 20:24:44 GMT
Hang on. If there's a T-Cup service and no Mets to Barking, what provides the direct Liverpool St - Aldgate East service? The Met remains as is, the Circle goes and is replaced by the 'T Cup', and the H&C continues as it is today. I see. So presumably the Circle Line would keep its identity - although this plan means there would in fact be no direct trains from, say, Notting Hill Gate to Baker Street (in either direction) since all Circles would terminate (or go off to Hammersmith) at Edgware Road. Unless prjb can correct me!
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 31, 2007 1:22:49 GMT
Sounds like that doesn't it!
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 2, 2007 21:45:36 GMT
No adw, that is about it mate! Although the Circle line name would probably change. Just again for the record, I do not like the whole T Cup plan, so please don't shoot the messenger. Yes Mackenzieblu, there was a plan to have a T Cup with a branch off to Wimbledon, I still have the proposed line diagram around here somewhere!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 21:57:57 GMT
No adw, that is about it mate! Although the Circle line name would probably change. Just again for the record, I do not like the whole T Cup plan, so please don't shoot the messenger. Yes Mackenzieblu, there was a plan to have a T Cup with a branch off to Wimbledon, I still have the proposed line diagram around here somewhere! Now theres a diagram Id love to see! When I put the T-cup services on my alternate map I had alot of fun. sadly I ran out of time to do my own line diagram of it!
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 3, 2007 23:33:50 GMT
I think the Circle Line name should stay even if the service is changed! After can you imagine doing the t-cup pub crawl!!
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 7, 2007 19:09:23 GMT
Both Met's to Barking & the T-cup have been dropped - I can't remember where I got that info from though, but it is true. This isn't true either. The 'T-Cup' service is still firmly in the plans and I doubt it will be dropped. I don't like it at all, but currently it is going ahead and I don't think it will change. I've just remembered who told me the T-cup was dropped - one of the upgrade project manager's working on the new SSR SCC. I can tell you his name, prjb, in a PM if you'd like
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 8, 2007 12:30:36 GMT
I know who it is, you told me you had him in his cab. He sits about two desks away from me so I will give him an earful on your behalf!!
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 8, 2007 12:40:53 GMT
Has T cup been dropped then?
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Post by Tomcakes on Nov 8, 2007 12:45:01 GMT
It'd be a great name for a line. "This is a Teacup Line service to Edgware Road" ;D.
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 8, 2007 13:33:10 GMT
We used to have the 'tea run' from Sth Acton to Acton Town! The 2 G23 cars that ran the service simply had [ACTON] on the front!!
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 8, 2007 18:46:15 GMT
Has T cup been dropped then? No it has not, Colins source who is very reliable feels that he may have given him the wrong end of the stick on this one! Just so that everyone else is aware, Colin was quite right to post what he did because it was based on information from a member of the Chief Programmes Office. I have spoken to the person concerned and there must have been a 'crossed line' on this one. The bottom line is that Colin was posting in good faith based on info from a very solid source.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 9, 2007 0:45:38 GMT
ooopppss ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Looks like I may well have misunderstood ;D ;D Note self: must pay more attention when I bump into these high profile people ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2007 20:50:07 GMT
Then why hasn't the teacup line appeared anywhere on the TfL website, in the documents about the future of the London Underground or any of the proposed maps? These do mention new lines, the split of the Northern line and things like that. Why not the the teacup?
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Post by c5 on Nov 22, 2007 21:05:27 GMT
It is on the LU Intranet! As well as other line upgrade information, and some of the turned down options!
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 22, 2007 22:08:26 GMT
I have a line diagram of the 'T' Cup but it just hasn't gone public yet, thats all. I'm not sure why that is to be honest.
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Post by suncloud on Nov 23, 2007 10:29:45 GMT
Given the disagreements here between tube-savvy people here over whether it's a good idea or not... I'd imagine it will not go down too well with the cattle (especially with an ES spin on it). I don't blame LU for taking their time to make sure it is going to work/happen, and then getting all the supporting PR set up before making any formal announcements.
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Post by c5 on Nov 23, 2007 10:57:35 GMT
Well some people will get increased journey times and some will have to change trains, so the ES angle is bound to be negative. Is it ever positive?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2007 2:25:52 GMT
Personally I could really care less about the T-Cup - as long as it works, is stable and easy to reform, doesn't bore the C&H drivers to death and is presented to the public in an easy-to-understand form, I couldn't care less about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2007 17:22:54 GMT
Could anyone tell me if the Circle and Hammersmith and City are to retain their identities?
I'm not sure why they should - if I understand the T Cup routings, they would be the same except the H&C trains would turn at Aldgate.
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Post by c5 on Nov 25, 2007 17:46:15 GMT
The H&C will run as it does today, out to Barking. The new Circle will supplement the service on the Hammersmith branch
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