Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2007 23:03:27 GMT
Ive not seen this posted anywhere so sorry if it has.
The Oct 07 issue of Underground News has a nice graphic of the mock up of the DM of a 8 car S stock train with some measurements. not sure if the designs been changed since then but its a nice bit of work. Interesting to see the non standard doors at the front of the train. I can't wait to see what the final train looks like, hopefully it wont be too long (months?) with the first Shell under construction.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 17, 2007 1:04:57 GMT
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Post by glasgowdriver on Oct 17, 2007 2:37:23 GMT
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Post by onetrain on Oct 17, 2007 16:14:46 GMT
The only thing i wonder is will the cab be like the 2009 Stock or completely different.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2007 17:43:29 GMT
I think we can assume that the cab will be substantially different from the 09 stock, not least because the driver will sit on the opposite side!
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Post by onetrain on Oct 17, 2007 17:48:33 GMT
I know that the driver won't sit on the opposite side , but what i mean't was,will the Cab be like the 09ST by the handel,anyway we shall se what the cab shall look as i for one can't wait
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 17, 2007 19:13:01 GMT
As District drivers will be aware, images of the S stock cab mock-up are now up in depot mess rooms..........well, they are at the east end of the District anyway.
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Post by onetrain on Oct 18, 2007 8:28:37 GMT
Any chance of a picture to show us what it looks likes, as i'm very excited about this stock.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 18, 2007 16:16:03 GMT
This is the picture referred to in the first post: dstock7080.fotopic.net/p45962094.html(apologies for the staples in the page!) You can clearly see the reduced size of the leading doors on the DM car. Also mentioned is the fact that 7-car trains will now only have longitudinal seating. Car numbering of the 7-car trains has been changed, the previous announced series: Train73 = 21202 DM - 22202 M1 - 23202 M2 - 24202 MS + 24201 MS - 22201 M1 - DM 21201 and so on up to: Train190= 21436 DM - 22436 M1 - 23436 M2 - 24436 MS + 24435 MS - 22435 M1 - DM 21435 The 'A' end M2 cars from T142 (25340) will be fitted with de-icing equipment. They will now be numbered thus: Train73 = 31202 DM - 32202 M1 - 33202 M2 - 34202 MS + 34201 MS - 32201 M1 - DM 31201 and so on up to: Train190= 31436 DM - 32436 M1 - 33436 M2 - 34436 MS + 34435 MS - 32435 M1 - DM 31435 The 'A' end M2 cars from T142 (35340) will be fitted with de-icing equipment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2007 18:23:49 GMT
having read Underground News, having different seating in the 8-car versions begs the question as to why they don't put even more seating into the 8-cars!
They seem to want to have this stock standardised for the sake of standardisation rather than of what the passengers needs are.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 18, 2007 18:33:26 GMT
Any chance of a picture to show us what it looks likes, as i'm very excited about this stock. Possibly - the images are on sheets of A4 paper stuck to the wall; if I can get clear images on my phone you may be in luck, otherwise we'll have to rely on prjb. There's also a possibility that these images are not intended for public release, but if that were the case, they wouldn't/shouldn't be on the wall in the mess rooms!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2007 21:51:24 GMT
Dstock can I ask where that picture came from?
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Post by amershamsi on Oct 19, 2007 2:32:04 GMT
seeing as S stock are coming in about 2009, why have they, unlike the 2009 stock, not made a model of what it would look like?
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Oct 19, 2007 7:59:09 GMT
seeing as S stock are coming in about 2009, why have they, unlike the 2009 stock, not made a model of what it would look like? It is possible they don't want the 'Metroland' commuters to see what they're getting.......they are a vociferous lot and you'd could well get 1000 different opinions as to why they're not fit for purpose! For a start, the 'half-and-half' seating originally proposed was entirely a compromise to keep all seating layouts the same on all types of S stock. Now the inner urban seating has been changed to all longitudinal there is no rationale for not changing the Met stock back to the original all-sideways as for the A stock. But there we are...... However there may be a perfectly innocent reason known to the likes of prjb, whose recent lack of communication is mainly due to broadband problems at home.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2007 10:53:52 GMT
seeing as S stock are coming in about 2009, why have they, unlike the 2009 stock, not made a model of what it would look like? There is a model floating around (it was on the metronet bus), as well as plenty of artist impression images - try Bombardier's website for starters.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 19, 2007 11:08:09 GMT
Dstock can I ask where that picture came from? As I said at the top of my post- it's the graphic referred to in the first post of this thread, namely the October 2007 issue of UndergrounD News.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Oct 19, 2007 19:54:42 GMT
If anyones read the official underground handbook, its perhaps worth noting that in ten years time, the description of the 'A' stock will seem highly ironic and hypocritical.
I hate to say it since I don't want to guess at how many man hours have gone in, but if what they produce looks like that, many people will make the comment that its hardly a design classic, and most probably some will go further to say that its unfit for purpose. I hope somebody realises this now rather than later...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2007 22:27:01 GMT
If anyones read the official underground handbook, its perhaps worth noting that in ten years time, the description of the 'A' stock will seem highly ironic and hypocritical. I hate to say it since I don't want to guess at how many man hours have gone in, but if what they produce looks like that, many people will make the comment that its hardly a design classic, and most probably some will go further to say that its unfit for purpose. I hope somebody realises this now rather than later... Firstly, I quite like the look of the S-stock. Secondly, the metropolitan lines runs a frequent "metro" like service on the majority of the line (the exception being the Amersham line from HOTH). Now the higher capacity internal layout of the S-stock is more suited for this type of service. Thus a "more seats" and "less standing" layout is only really needed on a small part of the network to Amersham. The increase in frequency will make up for most of the seat losses anyway.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 19, 2007 22:48:52 GMT
seeing as S stock are coming in about 2009, why have they, unlike the 2009 stock, not made a model of what it would look like? As District drivers will be aware, images of the S stock cab mock-up are now up in depot mess rooms..........well, they are at the east end of the District anyway. When is the real mock-up due? LU should receive it in December this year and it is currently scheduled to go public in January 2008.
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Post by knap on Oct 20, 2007 11:05:12 GMT
Secondly, the metropolitan lines runs a frequent "metro" like service on the majority of the line (the exception being the Amersham line from HOTH). Now the higher capacity internal layout of the S-stock is more suited for this type of service. Thus a "more seats" and "less standing" layout is only really needed on a small part of the network to Amersham. The increase in frequency will make up for most of the seat losses anyway. The trip out to Watford is long as well. If the seating is not improved for longer distance travel and if the trains are no much faster than the present service, then I suspect more people will try and use the faster Chiltern service with better seats, I know I will as I do now.
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Post by amershamsi on Oct 20, 2007 13:28:59 GMT
the loudest complaints regarding the proposed change of seating are from Northwood and Pinner - mostly as they will have to stand (though maybe, if lucky, one of those rather uncomfortable longitudinal seats) in peak for the long journey in, as all the seats will fill up further north.
From Amersham, off peak, more people arrive in time to take a Chiltern - it's faster, and the Met doesn't have the bonus of the direct train to the City anyway. I prefer the Met, as I prefer A stock seats (though pre-referb, I remember them being rubbish), as they aren't shaped to people who have a different shape to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2007 17:02:09 GMT
Dstock can I ask where that picture came from? As I said at the top of my post- it's the graphic referred to in the first post of this thread, namely the October 2007 issue of UndergrounD News. Curious as its silghtly different from mine (not the picture tho). The A stock is comfortable if you can get a seat tho I love the 95/6 TS.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 20, 2007 22:14:42 GMT
The only thing i wonder is will the cab be like the 2009 Stock or completely different. The cab layout is very different to the 09ts. 'S' benefits from more modern advances such as a colour touch screen TCMS (MITRAC) and also has dual screens (12.1") for the OPO screens. I know it's my project but I do think the 'S' cab is vastly superior to the 09 cab.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 20, 2007 22:16:51 GMT
As District drivers will be aware, images of the S stock cab mock-up are now up in depot mess rooms..........well, they are at the east end of the District anyway. Yes thats a sore point! They are not final design and should not have been posted. Also, the mock up shown in the photo's was very low fidelity and BTUK are currently updating the whole thing to better represent the actual equipment and final design.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 20, 2007 22:19:02 GMT
having read Underground News, having different seating in the 8-car versions begs the question as to why they don't put even more seating into the 8-cars! They seem to want to have this stock standardised for the sake of standardisation rather than of what the passengers needs are. The mixed solution for the 8 car 'S' is considered to be optimum by the design team and a full 2+2 seating layout was ruled out early on as poor for a number of reasons. If we wanted to have everything standardised then we wouldn't have changed the layout on the 7 cars.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 20, 2007 22:21:56 GMT
Any chance of a picture to show us what it looks likes, as i'm very excited about this stock. Possibly - the images are on sheets of A4 paper stuck to the wall; if I can get clear images on my phone you may be in luck, otherwise we'll have to rely on prjb. There's also a possibility that these images are not intended for public release, but if that were the case, they wouldn't/shouldn't be on the wall in the mess rooms!! As per usual Colin, you are right on the nose! As soon as the cab design is at a finalised state I promise to get something out to you all.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 20, 2007 22:23:50 GMT
seeing as S stock are coming in about 2009, why have they, unlike the 2009 stock, not made a model of what it would look like? They have! It plugs in and lights up and looks very swish. The only problem is that the design has moved on several times since then. Even the latest pictures that are out (including those linked in this thread) are now incorrect due to minor changes to the livery.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 20, 2007 22:26:45 GMT
If anyones read the official underground handbook, its perhaps worth noting that in ten years time, the description of the 'A' stock will seem highly ironic and hypocritical. I hate to say it since I don't want to guess at how many man hours have gone in, but if what they produce looks like that, many people will make the comment that its hardly a design classic, and most probably some will go further to say that its unfit for purpose. I hope somebody realises this now rather than later... Firstly, I quite like the look of the S-stock. Secondly, the metropolitan lines runs a frequent "metro" like service on the majority of the line (the exception being the Amersham line from HOTH). Now the higher capacity internal layout of the S-stock is more suited for this type of service. Thus a "more seats" and "less standing" layout is only really needed on a small part of the network to Amersham. The increase in frequency will make up for most of the seat losses anyway. I love stephenk!! ;D I should just give him my password and let him post for me, because he always says exactly what I'm thinking!!
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 20, 2007 22:29:05 GMT
Sorry for the raft of replies, as Phil said I am suffering from PC problems and try to 'bang' posts out before "the computer says no"!
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 24, 2007 20:58:53 GMT
I don't like the seating layout of the new S stock-I am however, happy that the District/Circle/H&C seating has been changed. The transverse seats would have got in the way-especially in the rush hour. I am actually a fan of 2+2 seating on the Metropolitan. If the 2 end longitudinal seats could be changed to the tip up type it would produce enough room for standing passengers during the rush hour. Standing passengers would be able to stand in the door vestibule and all the way into the interconnecting corridor-and obviously through into the next car in the same afformentioned area.
308 seats per train is not really enough, considering when there are currently 464 seats. The journey time from Amersham/Watford/Uxbridge to the city is about a hour-I don't fancy that standing! I can't see the increase in the service frequency to counter this-especially as Metronet (or whatever they hale as now) can't even afford to buy as many trains (hence why Barking got the chop) now!
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